Quote from: star on January 18, 2018, 02:07:57 AM

Ok. Example from my friends card.

My friend bought his membership 31 November 2016. It runs out 30 November 2017. His doesn’t need it for his league just senior tournaments. So on January 3 this year he orders his new card. Date of membership now states 31 November 2017 expiry 30 November 2018.

Whatever it says on site. This is how it works.

Okay I follow that,

The BTPA card is effective from "November 31 to November 30 the next year"

The USBC card is effective from "August 1 through July 31 of the next year"

So no difference other than dates used.
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Now your friend
You say he doesn't need a card to bowl league, So I assume it's a unsanctioned league that doesn't require one.

But he does need one to bowl in sanctioned events such as the senior tournaments.

correct?
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If so then from Nov. 30, 2017 to Jan. 2, 2018 he would be unsanctioned and thus couldn't participate legally in sanctioned events (such as senior tournaments during that period) if he couldn't show he had a valid card.

But your saying if he bought a card on Jan. 3, 2018 it's retroactive back to Nov. 30, 2017.

So if he somehow bowled in a sanctioned league/tournament during that unsanctioned period, all would be okay

Here's a scenario on Dec 1, 2017 your friend who doesn't have a valid card somehow bowls in a sanctioned tournament, he wins!! The payoff is on Jan. 3, 2018.

He goes down to pickup his winnings, They say we checked found out you didn't have a valid card so your DQ'd.

He say's wait a minute I'll pay for card right now and they hand him the prize money.

Would you say that was fair to everyone that had their valid card at the time?


or how about this if a card is retroactively valid from the date you buy it back to Nov. 30.

Then conceivably a player (or whole team for that matter) could bowl a entire sanctioned league without cards and if the team comes in first and someone says they didn't have cards so they forfeit.

So they just pay for their cards then and say we still win the cards are retroactive  back to the start of the league.

Would that be fair?


I'd just about bet the cards in the UK don't work that way, being retroactive so that the games of someone who bowled without a valid card all of sudden become sanctioned.

No you still misunderstand the date thing. Mine is 14 November and will be due the 14 November the following year. Everyone’s is a different date dependant on the date when they originally joined. You can see it could be quite easy to bowl one week of league before realising the mistake. Tournaments are different as cards are inspected when you sign in. No card no entry.

Ok now I remember why I stopped commenting on the site after Sawbones passed away and my friend SrKegler had to leave due to ill health.

It seems that having an opinion different from others can now be frowned upon.

I’ll also admit I’m a big softie and almost always tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes to my loss.

All I said originally was if it was a genuine slip of the mind to an inexperienced bowler (and again after several posts down the page it seems it’s not, so throw the book at them) then maybe something could have been done to save upsetting players in the team who were completely not at fault in the so called mistake. Due to the actual rule there isn’t any wiggle room.

In this vast world where there is so much going on in the lives of people who bowl. It may not be they’re top priority to remember the date their membership is due, as I’m sure several on here have forgotten a birthday at some time in their life. Ok I understand that with your membership having a set date when all are due, does make it more difficult to forget.

I’m sorry if I upset anyone.

Ok now I remember why I stopped commenting on the site after Sawbones passed away and my friend SrKegler had to leave due to ill health.

It seems that having an opinion different from others can now be frowned upon.

I'm sorry if my questioning your comment/opinion and my not understanding you has upset you.

As far as I know, I and no one else has said you couldn't have a opinion different from others.

Just because someone doesn't take a comment at face value and questions or disagrees with it, doesn't mean they are saying you don't have a right to express one.

Now if you don't want anyone to comment on or disagree with your posts or only agree with what you say, then your right not too post.

Because that's not going to happen.

And yes jim I think we're done here.

The decission has been made. I was told our local USBC person got involved and contacted someone on the National level. They came up with the team forfeiting 6 games. We were told after the protest was filed they were going back 15 days from the day of the protest to forfeit basically 2 weeks of games. I'm not sure where that ruling is, but that's where things stand. I think it should be 10 games no matter what place the team is in.

The 15 days falls in line with Rule 119 – Protest/Appeal Procedures which says you have to file protests within 15 days of the series.

The person said they did there sanction card on-line but could not come up with the confirmation info.

Being a USBC member, you can check it yourself. Just go to the find a member on bowl.com or use the USBC app. punch their name in you can see their info and card.

Guess I need to get a better understanding of the rules. Thanks for all of the very informative information from everyone. One thought is that if all game are forfeited the entire team may quit. I say " Tough lesson to learn"

That's something every bowler should do (but most don't) is be familiar with the rulebook.

The decission has been made. I was told our local USBC person got involved and contacted someone on the National level. They came up with the team forfeiting 6 games. We were told after the protest was filed they were going back 15 days from the day of the protest to forfeit basically 2 weeks of games. I'm not sure where that ruling is, but that's where things stand. I think it should be 10 games no matter what place the team is in. The person said they did there sanction card on-line but could not come up with the confirmation info. Guess I need to get a better understanding of the rules. Thanks for all of the very informative information from everyone. One thought is that if all game are forfeited the entire team may quit. I say " Tough lesson to learn"

Would this not also call into scrutiny the scores from that person's other leagues? Granted, someone from those leagues will need to file the complaint, but during the time in question of not having a USBC card, wouldn't ALL scores bowled during the time in question be subject to forfeiture?

BL.

In a way, I kinda feel bad for this person.  They may have tried to skirt the system, but who skirts the system then asks about awards? 

One question I have is if only the last two weeks were forfeited, does that mean USBC will honor the award scores if they didn't fall in that particular two week window?

In the league that I am sanctioned the Secretary puts the sanction cards in the envelope on the very first week and you have to fill it out if sanctioned in another league or pay the dues right there or you don't bowl and that would have taken care of this problem. I really don't feel sorry for the person not getting credit for the 300 games as it was that persons responsibility to get sanctioned.

It is in the leagues that I bowl in