Author Topic: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over" (Read 11386 times)

Russell · « **on:** December 30, 2010, 10:38:09 PM »

Over the last few years here I have read quite a few threads where people have said that $50 for a blank drill, and that $220 for a high end ball WITH drilling is just a ripoff...let me share a few things.

Like your Ipod?

Well Apple keeps the market competitive, and the markup for an Ipod at the retail level is low (less than 8%)....but god help you if you buy aftermarket headphones, or a workout holder, as these items are marked up well over 100%.

Like your clothes (Polo, Affliction, Gap, etc)?

Average markup in this industry is 100%....so a wholesale shirt costing a retailer $20 will get sold for $40.

Like your shoes (Nike, New Balance?)

Average markup in this industry is 100%...I worked at Sports Authority in High School and we bought Air Max's for $68...sold them for $139.99.

Now mind you the comparisons here are not in bowling. They do all have one thing that bowling DOESN'T have:

NO LABOR, meaning that there is noone providing a service. You're paying double what the store paid for it, and their cost in skilled labor is a cashier?

Now in bowling average cost for a high tech ball is about $125...the shop offers it for $160...plus $45ish to drill it. This makes the total price to $205. Add in grips and slugs and it's $225, which cost the shop another $5.

So cost is $130, and it's sold for $225...let's check the math:

$130/$225 = 57% markup

BUUUTTTT

In the retail industries I talked about, there is no labor involved. Only a storefront with racks and cashiers. They have very little skill....so why do they charge a higher markup than bowling retail? This is why anyone that thinks a shop charging for drilling, and a markup needs to take an economics class at the local community college.

I don't know of any pro shop owner that is driving a Bentley to the shop...do you?

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

cappy718 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 01, 2011, 11:18:28 PM »

I've went into a place and had the "professional" watch me bowl, drill the ball the way that 'he thought it was best for me' after watching me throw. I ended up with that ball that does not go anywhere down the lane the way I throw it. It's hard for me to get it to hold the line without hooking into the 7 pin. He drilled it pin down, should have been pin up, but I went in there trying to give the guy with the 'knowledge' the lead on how to set this up for me. He just made it hook as much as possible. He also used way too much glue in the tips which has given me hair line cracks all the way around the tips w/in 20 games. I got 2 tips and no slug....56 bucks. Oh and when I asked for the stats on my pap and such so I would know in the future, he rolled his eyes at me like I was asking for something special.

While there may be some of you all out there that do offer a good service, these kind of guys are ruining your reputation as a whole. I think ball drillers are like barbers. When you move and have to find another...it takes forever to find a good one. This is also why you get amateurs in there saying they want their ball drilled with such and such layout because they dont trust you anymore and figure what they get for drilling instructions from the manufacturer and online is better.

Ultimately, the reason why people feel like they get screwed is because of the quality of the service. You can toss me 10 free games, which is what happened with said ball above, but I'd never reccomend that driller to anyone! It's always about quality of the service...and when bowlers dont get it, they look to other avenues...plain and simple. Mark up on ball might be a big deal to some, but still I'm going with quality of service.

My .02

StickZ · « **Reply #32 on:** January 02, 2011, 06:39:23 AM »

Cappy I agree with you 110%! My proshop guy states "you dont need a PAP"...so i figured it out on my own. yea ill pay myself for the customer service by saving money and buy online...

Mike, My friend has yet to mess up,he takes his time, takes about 45 minutes to get everything set and done, Kid hits his lines like he is suppose to, doesnt drill too deep for the thumb slug. Its all about quality! If the proshop guy half asses everything why would I go to him and pay so much money? I have thought about sending my stuff away to a certain person to drill my stuff. Its just a matter of how long i want to wait for it.

Career High Game: 300x3
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cappy718 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 02, 2011, 10:07:35 AM »

And I hate it when you say you want your ball to go long and turn hard and they put the pin down...or they want to put their fav drill on the ball because that's how they would like that ball drilled. There are so many pro shops that dont listen to what the customer is saying and that's why regular bowlers feel like they are bending people over. The customer is not listened to and sometimes is treated like an idiot. Due to this confidence factor being low, if someone has to have a ball drilled by someone, they wont pay the inflated price for the ball at the shop. The customer wants to save that 30-45 bucks to fix the messed up drill if need be. Hence why ball sales online are booming from what I can see.

Russell · « **Reply #34 on:** January 02, 2011, 04:38:23 PM »

What's funny is the "know-it-alls" that seem to know more than their pro shop guy. I don't know the situation, or whether your pro shop operator was right or wrong.

Does pin up make the ball ALWAYS go longer?

Does EVERY bowler need the ball to be pin up?

How do you know that pin down wouldn't make the ball a little more controllable yet allow it to corner for your ballroll?

I have put the pin down for plenty of bowlers when I was trying to help them move in and get the ball down the lane. I woud choose a cover the was clean through the fronts and a weaker core, and then drill it a little bit milder to help control the shape downlane.

No...because you read some moron on this site talk about pin ups being the answer to all of his prayers you know more than someone with a decade of experience.

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

rvmark · « **Reply #35 on:** January 02, 2011, 06:00:33 PM »

I will count myself among the lucky as the Proshop that I go to has two very knowledgeable drillers that are very good bowlers in there own right. They have watched me bowl over the past several years and we always discuss what I am looking for in ball reaction and then they take the time to layout the ball and they always check the fit and have me bowl a a game or two to get the feel of the new ball. I definitely know that I am not more knowledgeable on drill layouts than they are and I pay attention to the tips that they give me. For those of you who say you won't drive to a good proshop, I will continue to drive the 47 miles to this shop as they have earned by business and trust over the years.

Mark

Gunny · « **Reply #36 on:** January 02, 2011, 06:10:37 PM »

Russell wrote on 1/2/2011 5:38 PM:No...because you read some moron on this site talk about pin ups being the answer to all of his prayers you know more than someone with a decade of experience.

Maybe its because the numbnut behind the county tried to reassure me that a pin down drilling is what I needed. Than the ball tracked over the fingers and thumb. I go back to the guy, and he say's that if your a high tracker that would happen. Well, numbnuts, I told you I was when I purchased the ball! And this is what happens at quite a few shops, because they don't care to watch your style before making suggestions. And it's also because, that said numbnut behind the counter thinks he's the bowling god and doesn't want to hear suggestions from mere mortals.

That's one of my experience with a shop when I got back into bowling 3 1/2 yrs ago. Needless to say I had to eat the loss on that ball, and on another ball that he drilled with almost a 7" pin to pap, because he put one of his favorite drill patterns on the ball because he thought I would like it. This is when I decided to learn more about the technical aspect of the game.
.
And as you can tell this kind of stuff happens more than you think, because others have posted something similar. As you can see, StickZ and cappy718 have reported that the shop they visited didn't want to listen to suggestions, or to check someones PAP. Which we all know how important the PAP is in laying out a ball.

Yes, some on here seem to "know it all" about pro shops, and some shops seem to "know it all" that customers don't know crap. But geesh! How hard is it to have a simple discussion? Both sides of the counter are to blame for that crap.

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Russell · « **Reply #37 on:** January 02, 2011, 07:53:57 PM »

Gunny in situations like that...you're right. You have a genuine gripe. If that pro shop won't fix it, then you move on to someone else and make sure that people know about your experience. Word of mouth is the biggest selling point for any pro shop owner/operator.

There are probably just as many cases of people "knowing" more than the pro shop person because they read the internet. I have been in and out of shops for a decade...there are tons of them out there.

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

atltnpnr · « **Reply #38 on:** January 02, 2011, 09:02:33 PM »

Guess I'm in the lucky camp also. In this area there are several proshops that do good work. I have not been to them all but just from reputation. The one I use fits my needs and I am loyal, that's why have not tried some of the others.

Bowling is like life. Sometimes you are the ball. Other times you are the pins.

cappy718 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 02, 2011, 09:31:05 PM »

Russell,

I answered your questions below, but you are getting all upset about something that's a very real problem. Instead on getting all worked up, listen to what we're saying we dont like about pro shops we've had problems with and learn from it. Dont make the same mistakes the other guys that will never get our business again. I do not believe all pro shop operators are like the one I had a problem with or else I wouldnt go back to others to have my equipment done. It ultimately comes back to customer service as I said before. Just because you think the bowler doesnt know what he needs for his game doesnt mean you should drill the ball the way you see fit.

That bowler is paying you to do something for him, the way he wants it. Its up to you to convince the bowler that a different drill would be better. One of 4 things is going to happen:

1. If he doesnt listen and hates the ball the way he wanted it drilled, that's not your fault you tried.

2. If he doesnt listen and loves the ball the way he wanted it drilled, then you did a good job.

3. If you convince him to change the drill to what you think would be better and he loves it...great.

4. If you convince him to change the drill to what you think would be better and he hates it, at least he knew what was going on to begin with and at that point you should offer some kind of reduced plug and redrill option if the bowler wants to go that route.

Russell wrote on 1/2/2011 5:38 PM:
Does pin up make the ball ALWAYS go longer?

No, never claimed to know more in general than the pro shop guy, but definitely more than he knows about how I want to throw the ball. NOT how he thinks I need to throw the ball.

Does EVERY bowler need the ball to be pin up?

Of course not...

How do you know that pin down wouldn't make the ball a little more controllable yet allow it to corner for your ballroll?

It might be, but that is something that a pro shop driller should discuss with the customer before the drilling commences!!!

I have put the pin down for plenty of bowlers when I was trying to help them move in and get the ball down the lane. I woud choose a cover the was clean through the fronts and a weaker core, and then drill it a little bit milder to help control the shape downlane.

That's good and all as long as you explain what you are wanting to do and they agree. Not just do it and expect them just to be able to change their style to do what YOU think it need to be..

No...because you read some moron on this site talk about pin ups being the answer to all of his prayers you know more than someone with a decade of experience.

Nope, it just fits my game well and it is how I like my balls to be drilled.

Author Topic: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over" (Read 11386 times)

Russell

For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

cappy718

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

StickZ

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

cappy718

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Russell

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

rvmark

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Gunny

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Russell

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

atltnpnr

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

cappy718

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"