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Author Topic: Bowling /Golf  (Read 2791 times)

avabob

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Bowling /Golf
« on: September 21, 2020, 10:37:19 AM »
Was watching the US Open yesterday and started thinking.  Is Bryson DeChambeau to golf what the 2 hander is to bowling?

I know it could be argued that the golf revolution really started with Woods but DeChambeau takes it to a new level

 

milorafferty

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2020, 11:53:41 AM »
No, he is just the current "Flavor of the Month/Year". He is having a good run, but nothing we haven't seen in golf before.

Now, if he was using a "Happy Gilmore" approach, then yea, that would be the equivalent to a 2 handed bowler.

When John Daily first became well-known, the extent of his back-swing could be considered or the take away motion of Jim Furuk.

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Pinbuster

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2020, 01:33:53 PM »
I believe the better comparison is the introduction of resin bowling balls to titanium drivers and the solid core golf balls.

Woods had a larger skill set in all facets of the game.

DeChambeau had many of those skills but has exploited the distance in the equipment to the extreme to largely eliminate accuracy off the tee from the equation. Winged Foot was vulnerable to the tactics because the greens were open in the front where balls could be run onto the green from the rough when needed. But the USGA is already wondering how they will counter the bomb and gougers in future championships.

I believe some of  the PGA players who are long to start with Dustin Johnson, Cameron Champ, Finau, McIlroy, etc might look at their strategy of attacking courses.

Resin balls gave friction to the bowling game. Where speed an revolutions became the most important factors in being able to score in bowling, particularly on flatter/heavier patterns.

Plus the ability to manipulate the shot with oil absorption to alter the playing field.

Again the two handed bowlers are able to produce the speed and revolutions needed easier. Plus the advantage of not having to clear a thumb.

It will be interesting to see how bodies hold up to these styles of play. Woods bulked up and swung fast and eventually his back, knees, etc have given out. Will that happen to DeChambeau I don't know.

Belmonte has been out there for sometime now. I don't think I would have ever had the flexibility to bowl 2 handed successfully but I think it takes a special body type to do it. Can it be done into ones 60's and 70's I don't know.

I don't have anything against 2 handers. The really good ones are just as accurate plus the addition of power. But I believe a lot of the reason for their style is due to conditions they are playing on and the modern equipment.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 01:35:44 PM by Pinbuster »

SG17

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2020, 01:47:33 PM »
isnt DeChambeau the golfer that was accused of using steroids?

I don't follow golf, but one of the sports radio shows I listen to talks golf some; and I seem to recall them discussing the accusation.

kiefenstien

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2020, 03:25:06 PM »
 I haven't heard anything on steroids, but this is his diet to transform from the 195lbs he use to be to the 240lbs he is now.

Breakfast
-Four (4) eggs
-Five (5) bacon strips
-Toast
-Two to three (2-3) Orgain protein shakes

While playing
-GoMacro bars (several)
-Peanut butter and jelly sandwich
-Orgain protein shake every six holes (three total)

Post-round
-Snacks, protein shake

Dinner
-Steak
-Potatoes
-Two (2) Orgain protein shakes
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 03:27:37 PM by kiefenstien »
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kiefenstien

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2020, 03:57:34 PM »
DeChambeau's driver is Cobra's King Speedzone with an L.A. Golf prototype shaft made just for DeChambeau. The loft is 5.5 degrees—similar to what most long-drive competitors use. He is now looking a use a 48 length shaft instead of a his 45.5 length shaft. These are all factors too in how to gain distance.
The principles of the B.P.O.E. are:
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avabob

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2020, 04:12:22 PM »
Great analysis Pinbuster.  The oversize heads have given guys much more margin of error to use in gaining huge swing speeds.  I too wonder how Dechambeaus game will age for him

milorafferty

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2020, 06:24:18 PM »
Clubs have been limited to 460 cc since 1988.

Titanium clubs were in use in the early 1990's.

Solid core balls have been around since the 1960's.

It's not the equipment, he is just in a groove right now. It will be someone else in couple of years if not sooner. At one time Tiger was "making courses obsolete", but alias, time caught up with him too.

He is probably juicing and just got big and strong, but that has a short shelf-life as well.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2020, 06:23:13 AM »
The USGA didn't restrict club head size till 2004 and there were some clubs built over 460cc before that. Before Titanium was introduced you could not make club heads that big and keep the weight at a level that was usable.

While there had been 2 piece golf balls for sometime virtually no professional golfers would use them as they did not provide the spin and feel of the wound balata ball provided. Around 2000 Nike introduced the modern solid core multi-layer golf ball but were unable to produce the ball in mass quantities. Titleist then introduced the pro v1 ball in large numbers and dominated the market since.

Most golfers are unable to generate the club head speed to take full advantage of the modern golf ball but professional golfers now average about 20 yards longer off the tee than they did in 2000 with equal gains in irons.

With Trackman and other swing monitors, the combination of clubheads, balls, and bigger stronger golfers distance on the PGA tour has exploded.

It probably took a generation of bowlers with urethane/resin 2 piece bowling balls being available for bowlers to adapt their games to take advantage of what the modern technology gave them.

It had take about a generation of golfers to adapt their games to take advantage of what the technology, modern clubs and balls have given them.

michael.willis9

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2020, 08:15:07 AM »
soooo everyone knows Tiger, so the comparison is more like Belmo?

and from the sounds of this DeChambeau (i don't follow golf much anymore), his comparison would be more like Jessper? big power game but needs the right conditions to be successful?

avabob

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2020, 05:57:48 PM »
Except that DeChambeau is having success on conditions that should not favor him under traditional logic. 

scotts33

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2020, 12:24:28 AM »
Too bad Sawbones isn't around anymore to discuss.  Golf/bowling. 
Scott

avabob

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2020, 10:03:53 AM »
I thought about that too.  Had some great discussions

Pinbuster

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2020, 02:29:05 PM »
DeChambeau is currently a pretty small sample. It was just a year ago he went into the training program to add all the muscle. Thus far the results have been positive. I'm surprised he has kept his short game touch and developed a style of putting that seems to work well for him.

But the bomb and gouge theme has been going on several years now and has been successful in regular tour events but this was the first time on a US Open venue where they thought the rough was long enough to keep them from reaching greens.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Bowling /Golf
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2020, 02:10:08 PM »
What a fascinating post! 

So, as a coordinated righty(not so much a lefty as my recent bowling tournament results would say) and a person who was a heck of a strong stick tee to green, I have found new balls, clubs, technique variations fascinating and intellectually challenging.

As a medium height individual and a long hitter in my prime, I sought a swing action that was Tom Watson-ish, a strong swoosh with an upright follow through of the times!  Very successful at it I was with some great scoring rounds and consistent very accurate drives over 280 to 315 in the summer with Laminates driver heads when that was a big deal.  (Many many many moons ago).

I believed power was generated with a Double lever system of creating angles and retaining them while using forearm rotation through impact as hard as I could.  Similar to the Hogan method all learned in one valuable 30 minute never forgotten lesson.

Fortunately due to winning a local Club championship I was sent to play in our local PGA tour event with a young and upcoming rookie pro named Dan Pohl(runner up at the 1981 Masters).  At the time he was ranked at  the time as the longest hitter on the PGA tour at ONLY 280 yards per drive.  I had seen him play in the NCAAs the previous summer and knew that his length for the time was out of this world!

Fired up as an Amateur, I was disappointed that we were sent to play off of the Amateur tees and could not get to hit side by side with the pros just to compare.  At the 12th I killed one out there near 300.  Dan from 30 yards behind me was 5 yards behind me. 

About 245 to the green he hits a 4 or 5 iron....WOW!  I hit my 3 wood up 12 feet from the hole putting for an Eagle!  I am psyched..  But I say to him, "5 iron?"  Yep!

At the end of the round after a bunch of 330 yard drives and a bunch of 4 woods off the tee mixed in which I got to watch of the Massive hitting and straight hitting Pohl, I asked him, "Dan how do you only average 280 off the tee?"  He said, "you see all those 4 woods I hit?"  Yep!  "Well the pro tour has half of those little doglegs as measurement holes!  I average 280 with a 4 wood at least in the summer!"

The LONG hitting Pohl using a 43 1/2 inch driver was extremely straight for such a long hitter, almost not curving the ball at all, to maybe a 5 to 10 yard fade!

Back to today,  Playing with hardly any backswing wrist cock, similar to DeChambeau, Pohl then added wrist cock as he started down to create what I call and what Art Sellinger of the World Long Drive tour call the Double Lever Swing.  I don't see that in DeChambeau, but I note the extra length in his drivers and his greater height than the 5'11" Pohl. 

At this time I believe he could actually easily add another 30 to 35 yards further if he added the Pohl increasing wrist cock.  But in all reality he is hitting quite far enough for today's courses!  And based on what I saw quite high and quite straight enough!

Take Care,

Luckylefty
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 02:13:12 PM by LuckyLefty »
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