BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: jclare on May 03, 2004, 06:15:41 PM

Title: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: jclare on May 03, 2004, 06:15:41 PM
Does anyone out there have any ideas about the differences between a 80% handicap league and a 100% handicap league?  What are the percentages of the higher average team winning in each situation?  Just curious as my league is considering a 100% handicap for next season.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: Pinbuster on May 04, 2004, 10:10:31 AM
The most obvious answer is that that the lower average bowlers will receive larger handicaps.  

Results of the league will somewhat depend on the make up of the league.

If you have several new and quickly improving bowlers they could become dominate. Particularly if several are on the same team. They will set a lower average and receive the handicap based on that. As their skills and scores improve their handicap will not go down as fast as their scores will go up.

If the league is established with few new to bowling then the odds are good that one of the better teams will still win the league. It will be closer but they probably will still win.
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: shotmaker on May 05, 2004, 09:31:49 AM
100% handicap will make it much harder for the team with the better bowlers to win. Maybe they could consider 85%-90% for handicap?

On a side note, I'm really getting sick of all these leagues trying to stick it to the good bowlers. My normal league on Thursdays is trying to increase handicap in a similar fashion, we currently have a 45 pin max handicap but they are going to increase that and the percentage. My Wednesday league currently is at 90% of 220, if you average over 220 it is 90% of the difference between your average and 220.....negative. Talk about making sure to make it impossible for the top level bowlers to compete.

Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: jclare on May 05, 2004, 10:46:15 AM
ttt
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: Brickguy221 on May 05, 2004, 11:08:28 AM
100% Handicap means that one of the poorer teams in a league wins the League Championship while the best (highest average team) in the league which was ours finishes 2nd, 4 games out of first like we did this year.
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Ex Member of Lane 1 Clique
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: moondays on May 05, 2004, 11:15:20 AM
What about negative handicaps?  I know quite a few people in my league were upset that the newest team won the championship.  The league's handicap was 90% of 220, but 4 of their guys were higher than 224.  They've mentioned that they would try to suggest negative handicap for next season to level the field again.
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: JOE FALCO on May 05, 2004, 11:42:00 AM
My favorite subject! Only one FAIR WAY .. all the talk about HIGH/LOW aaverage is JUST TALK!

Teams matched against each other .. SUM AVERAGES .. subtract lowest from highest .. difference is HANDICAP for lower average team!

It amounts too .. TEAM with most OVER AVERAGE wins!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E - F A L C O
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: Goof1073 on May 05, 2004, 12:13:42 PM
My main league is changing things too for next year.  I think we were 80% or 90% of 220 this year and next year they are going up that to the percentage of 230 I think?  My league is the biggest in my area with over 30 four man teams and with a large percentage of the better bowlers in the area bowling it the league.  I guess some of the people in the league think that this will make it a more competitive league?  I'm not seeing it, but I guess it will make those close matches a little easier for the higher handicap teams to win??
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: JOE FALCO on May 05, 2004, 12:25:26 PM
Bowlers are so ..... there could be a difference in HANDICAPPING TOURNAMENTS .. but LEAGUES are based on weekly bowling and averages .. tough to have SAND BAGGING in leagues .. maybe someone can hurt you for a week or two in a league .. but .. overall .. the method described MAKES EVERYONE EQUAL! BEST TEAM OVER AVERAGE WINS!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E - F A L C O
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: bowl400 on May 05, 2004, 01:38:31 PM
league rolloff last night.  our team was not involved, but i noticed something that has been bothering me for a while.  the team that won the roll off had two vacancies of 140.  seems like an advantage to me because the two vacancies will never have a bad night.  while it is true that they will not have a good night either, the other 3 bowlers only had to bowl close to their averages to win.  they also received 127 pins per game.  the team that lost had 3 of 5 bowling slighty under average and the two about average.  question is, how do other leagues handle this situation.  just curious, for the next time, when we are the other team.
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: Pinbuster on May 05, 2004, 02:01:08 PM
Bowl400 - If they had bowled most of the year with the vacancies and got to the championship round that way then I don’t see a problem.

However the league may need to look at their vacancy bowler rule. Generally vacancy scores are low enough that the vast bulk of the league will have higher averages. Unless handicap is 100% then the higher averages on the other team have the advantage.
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: bowl400 on May 05, 2004, 02:08:31 PM
it is a handicap mixer league with averages from a low of 82 to a high of 201.  the team in question had a full team for the first half and finished in the middle of the pack.  two bowlers quit some time during the second half creating the vacancies.  the league uses 140 as the vacant score.
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: Brickguy221 on May 05, 2004, 05:14:50 PM
OK, first I am in favor of handicaps, but not in favor of 100% handicaps. A 100% handicap is not fair to the better teams. 85% yes, 90% probably, but 100% no. Here is an example of why 100% isn't fair to everyone:......For an example of where it wouldn't be fair is to suppose a bowler has a 300 average and another has a 150 average. The 300 average bowler bowls his average, but he can't go over his average because 300 is the highest score a person can bowl plus he gets no handicap, whereas if the 150 average bowler bowls 151 ( 1 Pin iver his average ), he wins the match, 301 to 300.

Now, I know that no one has a 300 average, but that is still an example as to why you can't have 100% handicaps. It is way-way easier for the 150 or less bowler to go over their average than it is for a high average bowler to go over theirs, so the high average bowler is at a disadvantage from the start. It needs to be fair to everyone with everyone having an equal chance to win, but a 100% handicap doesn't give everyone an equal chance.

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Ex Member of Lane 1 Clique
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: JOE FALCO on May 05, 2004, 06:30:02 PM
IF a person had a 300 average (IF) and he had it for 10 weeks .. IF he averaged 250 in week 11 he would have to hit 340 in week 13 to get back on track.

What I'm suggesting is that when a person has a HIGH average (207+) he rarely shoots MUCH lower then his average .. by the same token when a bowler averages 150 .. he rarely shoots MUCH OVER that average.

I average 205 .. and I feel the only HONEST HANDICAP in a LEAGUE is as I descrided:

Teams matched against each other .. SUM AVERAGES .. subtract lowest from highest .. difference is HANDICAP for lower average team!

That's MY OPINION!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E - F A L C O
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: Brickguy221 on May 05, 2004, 07:34:54 PM
quote:
by the same token when a bowler averages 150 .. he rarely shoots MUCH OVER that average.


Sorry, butI will have to disagree with that one. Where I live, the 150 bowler shoots over his average more often than the 207 bowler shoots over his. The 207 bowler doesn't consistantly shoot over his average as much as the 150 bowler shoots over his. If the 207 bowler gets a split, he must get at least a double to get back on track which is much harder to do as excellent hits will often leave 1 Pin standing. The 150 bowler can get a split and then pick up an extra spare to get his average, which is easier than a bowler getting a double.

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Ex Member of Lane 1 Clique
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: JOE FALCO on May 05, 2004, 07:59:37 PM
Just a sugestion: In stead of thinking HOW MANY TIMES A 150 BOWLER BOWLS OVER his average .. think hard about how many times he bowls UNDER his average! Some how it works to be about 50% ... about the same amount of times a 210 average guys does it!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E - F A L C O
Title: Re: Bowling Handicaps
Post by: jclare on May 05, 2004, 10:22:11 PM
Thanks everybody.  Very interesting comments.  Keep them coming.