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Author Topic: hot water bath - how can it be safe?  (Read 7628 times)

qstick777

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hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« on: February 19, 2011, 11:49:51 AM »
I just don't get it.
 
I just did this on my ball and took some readings.
 
Outside temp: 42* - I keep my ball in the car during the entire league season.
 
Inside temp: 70*
 
Hot water temp:  120*
 
 Just to check, I used my cooking thermometer to check the ball - how else I am supposed to know when it's done? :)
 
Reading from the bottom of the finger hole - with thermometer pushed firmly against inside of ball: 101*
 
Reading from the thumb: 83*
 
That was 5-10 minutes into the bath.
 
I keep reading about how extreme temperature changes are to blame for balls cracking.  Not sure how I can get a much more extreme temperature change than that.  That is surely more of a rapid temperature change than leaving my ball in the car.
 
Even if it was in the house, that is 70* and then immediately dropping it into a bucket of 120* water.   Then you take it back out to dry.  Cool, hot, cool again........why no cracking?
 
:)
 
10 minutes later:
 
water temp: 116*
Finger hole: 113*
Thumb hole: 99*
 
Still nothing....not even at the cracked pin.   ????
 
Edited by qstick777 on 2/19/2011 at 9:01 PM
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Locke

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 01:53:54 AM »
That is because the cold is not what is cracking balls. I have had balls out in the garage at -10 with frost and ice on them and they don't crack. There is something else causing balls to crack but unless you drop its temp by something like 50 degrees in several seconds it will not crack. Bowling ball resin is actually surprisingly soft... Its not actually all that likely to crack. Balls crack because for some reason or another they are predisposed to cracking. Notice that it seems large groups of the same ball seem to crack at the same times...

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Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it.

kidlost2000

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 03:45:26 AM »
I believe it has to do with the glue used for holding in finger inserts. When I went away from finger inserts the cracking problem went with it.

 

With thumb inserts the glue is usually deeper in the ball below the outer surface .With finger inserts, which are not as deep, the glue has a tendency to make a lot of contact with the outer surface and I think over a period of time weakens the outer shell.


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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Dewey24

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 05:52:08 AM »
I think kid lost may be on to something. Most of the balls I've had cracked have been around the finger holes. Maybe the surface is soft and the glue hardening it causes the surface around the finger to become brittle. That being said I use the hot water bath all the time for my bowling balls and have never had a problem.

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Effybowler

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 12:50:51 PM »
In regards to the finger grip glue...
 
The only two balls I've had crack from the fingers were  those that I glued the grips in myself, and used plenty of glue since I had just started doing some of my own ball work. The owner of the proshop later showed me that I needed a quarter of the glue I was using, just one incredibly small drop on either side of the grip would suffice. Since I started minimizing my amount of glue used, I haven't had a ball crack. So if you use grips, I'd try to use as little glue as possible.
 
If I had lots of cracking problems, and believed glue caused it, but couldn't make myself stop using grips altogether, I wonder if using the vaccu grips style of insertion, where they are only glued in one tiny spot at the top of the grip, would be more effective at resisting cracking. 


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kidlost2000

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 01:23:47 PM »
I went away from finger inerts in 2001 and in that time have had only one bowling ball of close to 100 crack in that time frame.(Bonanza 2 ball)

 

My brother who still uses inserts and drills a LOT fewer bowling balls has had maybe 1 in 3 crack. Starting at the fingers on all of them. Even with glue that says it doesn't cause cracking, it still happens.

 

Like with thumb inserts, recently he started trying to start the glue further down in the ball below the outer shell to see if that helps. We will see in time if it makes a difference.

 

In terms of weather extremes and damage to the ball, it is still very possible. It can cause separation inside the ball and work its way out into cracking.

 

Here is a good read

 



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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

leftyinsnellville

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 01:09:48 PM »
I had several balls split this past year and they all started around the fingerholes and I never thought of superglue being the culprit.

 

That's it, I'm not using superglue on my inserts any more.  From now on I'm going to drill the finger holes just deep enough so the inside edge of the insert is flush with the ball (though the outside edge will stick out of the ball a little).  Then I'm going to pour a little ball filler in the fingerholes and stick in the inserts.  I'll trim the outer edge of the fingergrip after the epoxy dries.
 
Edited by leftyinsnellville on 2/21/2011 at 2:30 PM
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raiderh20boy

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 01:16:35 PM »
I have had UNDRILLED DISPLAY BALLS crack in my shop which is kept at a fairly even temp at all times!

 


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Edited by raiderh20boy on 2/21/2011 at 4:16 PM
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Monster Pike

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 01:57:05 PM »
I had an Attitude Shift crack... I just had it in the basement about 68 degrees... put in my bag upstairs about 70 degrees... went to bowling, opened up the bag & there it was cracked from the balance hole around to the middle finger hole...  I had at one time dishwashered it, but that was a long time before it cracked.  Somebody at the bowling center said the absorption of oil is what cracked it... I don't know about that... but something caused it to....


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HamPster

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 03:16:52 PM »
Don't trim the grips down.  To make it more comfortable, glue the side of the grip by the bridge first.  Once that dries, apply glue on the outside, and push the outside of the grip down until it is flush with the ball.  Unless you have some crazy lateral pitches, it will still fit, be comfortable, and there is no extra pressure put on the grip.  I've never had one come unglued doing it this way, we do that for everyone with grips.  If you use glue specifically designed for gluing grips/slugs into bowling balls, such as Turbo's slo-zip or Vise's insta-cure, you should have better luck.  
 
I'd have a super hard time believing a little bit of glue would cause a ball to crack.  It's not severe temperature changes, it's when it happens several times, when the coverstock swells and shrinks a lot over time.  Then if a ball is left stationary for an extended period of time, that's most commonly when cracking occurs.  I've never had a ball crack unless it wasn't in use.  
 
leftyinsnellville wrote on 2/21/2011 2:09 PM:
I had several balls split this past year and they all started around the fingerholes and I never thought of superglue being the culprit.

 

That's it, I'm not using superglue on my inserts any more.  From now on I'm going to drill the finger holes just deep enough so the inside edge of the insert is flush with the ball (though the outside edge will stick out of the ball a little).  Then I'm going to pour a little ball filler in the fingerholes and stick in the inserts.  I'll trim the outer edge of the fingergrip after the epoxy dries.
 
Edited by leftyinsnellville on 2/21/2011 at 2:30 PM


That's just like, your opinion, man.
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JohnP

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2011, 08:18:45 AM »
"That's it, I'm not using superglue on my inserts any more.  From now on I'm going to drill the finger holes just deep enough so the inside edge of the insert is flush with the ball (though the outside edge will stick out of the ball a little).  Then I'm going to pour a little ball filler in the fingerholes and stick in the inserts.  I'll trim the outer edge of the fingergrip after the epoxy dries."

 

So, every time you need to replace the grips you're going to have to clean up the bottom of the holes on the drill press?  --  JohnP


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Crankenstein300

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Re: hot water bath - how can it be safe?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2011, 12:32:54 PM »
Superglue could cause the small hairline cracks that sometime develop around the fingerholes but I really doubt that causes a full on crack. The 4 balls I have had crack all started around the thumbholes.


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