Author Topic: Bowling question (Read 12354 times)

Zanatos1914 · « **on:** July 25, 2012, 10:57:26 AM »

Last night while bowling the PBA experience I was lost completely and I have no idea what the shot was but the outside was a wash out and if you played inside to slow the ball would break hard... Then this guy suggested playing the back marks or halfs on the lane. Has anybody ever played those marks instead of the front arrows? Also when should or shouldnt you play those marks...

I feel so

- Never had to play those marks before now in this league...

milorafferty · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2012, 11:03:38 AM »

Do you mean the range markers on the Brunswick ProAnvil lanes?

I use them all the time. But you are right, it's a different approach to bowling. It's more about managing the break point instead of targeting the arrows or somewhere else in the front of the lane.

If you can learn to target the end of the pattern instead of the arrows you will be much more successful on sport conditions.

batbowler · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2012, 11:10:33 AM »

You need to find out what pattern and pattern length you're playing on first! Shorter pattern are generally played more outside and longer patterns generally played more inside! I play the range finders, the first set are at 15 board and start at 34' and end at 37', you have 3' space then the next set is at the 10 board at 40' to 43'. I use them more because they're at the break point and at closer to the strike pocket of 17/18 board.

milorafferty · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2012, 11:20:04 AM »

Look at the bright side Zanatos, you are going to be amazed at how easy a house shot is after a summer of PBA league.

Jesse James · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2012, 03:50:57 PM »

Sounds like a reverse block to me. There are multiple ways to play this pattern. You have just been advised of one way, by the comments above.

For me, if I play the inside dry, I can go with a super strong ball and diliberately play deep inside, letting the ball burn up and roll out to the pocket. If that pings too many half-tens, then you can move into the wash and let the strong piece just fall into the pocket with controlled speed, by playing up the boards, with an extreme outside line. This is more in line with watching your breakpoint closely, as mentioned above.

I have also had success playing in the wash with a weaker piece, slow speed, but a lot of revs. It kind of depends on your style and what you are comfortable with, but it can be done.

Russell · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2012, 04:31:17 PM »

It's not a reverse block, which is what many league bowlers think when they are on a pattern where the ball doesn't come back from the outside. I have bowled in a lot of tournaments for the past 15 years...and have never actually seen one laid down.

The culprit is usually playing too far left with your feet and then too far right with your breakpoint for your style. If you're on Viper and are playing 12 at the arrows to 7, but you have a lower revrate...you'll leave washouts. If you move your eyes inside suddenly your angle closes up and the ball jumps.

I would put my house on the pattern playing a little straighter. By straight I mean sitting the ball down on the 8 board, and the breakpoint being no further right than 6. I don't mean literally those boards, just as an example as each pattern will play slightly different.

What you are describing though is a telltale sign of being in the wrong part of the lane.

Russell · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2012, 04:33:35 PM »

I will also mention that the range finders are just a reference point, much like the arrows...or dots...or pins. If the pattern dictates that your breakpoint should be at the rangefinder downlane, then you can use that as a mark.

I am personally not a fan of actually looking at them, as it's a pretty big deviation from your normal head position. If you want to target them, use a normal mark at the arrows that will send the ball towards them. However there is nothing special about those boards other than there color.

Smash49 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2012, 05:31:38 PM »

I teach a 3 point targeting system using the range finders. The ranger finders are used to find the end of the oil pattern not the break point. There is a big difference. The end of the pattern is a constant. Break points vary from bowler to bowler and from ball to ball. Tommy Jones' break point on a pattern is way different than Chris Barnes but the will hit the same exit point on the pattern.

Smash49

Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w62JZe_rBmk&feature=player_embedded

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2012, 05:47:46 PM »

I will look @ the sheet this coming Tues and tell you what the shot was but anything outside of 10 to 11 was a washout... The middle arrow hand some oil to a certain limit and the backend was alittle tight... but if you could hit marks on the later part of lanes you could strike.. It was another dude on the lane that could play tight in the lane and he did okay...

My ball speed is alittle high and my revs are alittle extra so its alittle more challenging matching up but the back part of lane shot really brought me from 115 to 189...
I was pissed - Strarted throwing my plastis straight up the middle hard with all fingers

avabob · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2012, 05:54:54 PM »

Most important piece of info is length of buff. Somebody always calls a flat fresh pattern a reverse block because their is less hold area than on a house shot, and less swing area due to more outside oil.

The real key to playing any flatter patterns is to learn to play more direct and lose the addiction to swing area that most players have. More of an end over end roll pattern is very valuable. Don't confuse this with throwing a weaker release. High rev rate is still valuable, but combined with less axis rotation it allows you to play flatter patterns more effectively. Combine this with the other recommendation of playing further out on shorter patterns and you will be on the right track

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:32:03 AM »

After going back to my home center I realized why my game is limited - We have no back arrows and you wouldnt think of learning a shot like that. Watched league last night and almost the entire house is playing area and then bouncing off the dry board

Russell · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2012, 10:11:28 AM »

I am not sure what you mean by "back arrows"...if you mean range finders then my center doesn't either. Again they are not a target you aim for with your eyes, you simply can use them as a reference point when visualizing your shot...but ONLY if the shot dictates it. If you're bowling on cheetah and trying to use the rangefinders as a breakpoint...you will have a rough night.

Your comment about everyone playing area and bouncing off of the dry boards is dead on. In league you are rewarded for throwing the ball to the right and using the free hook, on most sport patterns this is punished. Your league shot may be 40' or so, but when you get the ball to the 7 board at 34', your ball isn't sliding in 40' of oil....it's encountering friction MUCH earlier.

This is why many people new to sport bowling feel like there is a reverse block, or too much oil outside. The ball is sliding SO much further than normal towards the outside.

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2012, 11:32:52 AM »

FYI:
The "Range Finder" is the system of Dots and Arrows in heads.

The set of marking's down the lanes on the Brunswick ProAnvil lanes,are a more recent addition to the lanes and are called "Break Point markers"

Russell · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2012, 02:03:38 PM »

My bad...always heard them referred to as range finders...wrong terminology

Smash49 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2012, 01:47:37 PM »

Hitting the Head Pin
Brunswick added 14 unique board lines, exclusive down-lane markings and alternating light/dark boards, creating new 6-inch target zones. The board lines run from the back of the approach to the pin deck, tying the dots and arrows together to help bowlers position their feet and focus on a target zone.

Finding Break Points
Our down-lane markings allow bowlers to identify their break points (the break point is where the ball leaves the conditioned portion of the lane and enters the dry portion, making a noticeable change in direction) and make the adjustments necessary to maximize pin carry.

Quote

donw wrote:
Thanks to all who have posted. I'm learning from the posts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the breakpoint is the vertex of the parabola that is the hook phase of the ball.

The breakpoint is not the exit point (exit point defined as pattern length minus 31).

kajmk cited the USBC ball motion study: http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net ... ionASQ.pdf.
That study indicated on the test lane oil ". . .was applied evenly...for eight feet, buffed incrementally to eight units...at thirty-five feet, and then buffed incrementally to five units at forty-seven feet." I understand this oil pattern was meant to test ball motion and not to replicate an actual lane condition. And I do not know whether this pattern would be considered to result in an exit point of 4 (35-31) or 16 (47-31). On page 9 of the study there is a table that indicates the Low Value of the breakpoint was at 28.8 feet downlane and the High Value was at 39.83 feet downlane. If the pattern length was 35 feet, only the High Value breakpoint would occur past the pattern length. If the pattern length was 47 feet, neither breakpoints would occur past pattern length.

So, is it the case that the exit point is somewhat irrelevant to determining one's breakpoint? And should one try to create or find a breakpoint approximately halfway downlane when one is rev challenged or speed dominant or the lane is heavily oiled or all three? And, try to create or find a breakpoint approximately two-thirds of the way downlane when rev dominant, speed challenged, or the lane is drier? And how might the breakpoint be discovered?

From Mo Pinel
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the break point is the vertex of the parabola that is the hook phase of the ball.

The break point is not the exit point (exit point defined as pattern length minus 31).

Those are two very accurate statements!

This information came from another forum.

Looks like according to Brunswick they are called Down Lane Markings and are unique to Brunswick and some of the information on the Brunswick site may be questionable.

Smash49

Author Topic: Bowling question (Read 12354 times)

Zanatos1914

Bowling question

milorafferty

Re: Bowling question

batbowler

Re: Bowling question

milorafferty

Re: Bowling question

Jesse James

Re: Bowling question

Russell

Re: Bowling question

Russell

Re: Bowling question

Smash49

Re: Bowling question

Zanatos1914

Re: Bowling question

avabob

Re: Bowling question

Zanatos1914

Re: Bowling question

Russell

Re: Bowling question

Aloarjr810

Re: Bowling question

Russell

Re: Bowling question

Smash49

Re: Bowling question