Author Topic: Forward Roll vs. Axis tilt (Read 10872 times)

DontJimmymeJewels · « **on:** February 11, 2012, 02:12:30 AM »

If you had your choice which one would you have the most of?

Everyone digs the trip 4!!!!

glssmn2001 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2012, 10:19:00 AM »

northface28 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2012, 11:02:13 AM »

Roll, easier to control.

”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2012, 11:15:43 AM »

Everything in moderation. You don't want too much of either.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

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strikeking · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2012, 11:55:11 AM »

Forward roll with an axis tilt of about10 or 15 degrees. Too much tilt when entering the pocket results in corner pins being left because of ball deflection. Forward roll results in the ball driving through the pins to hit the 1, 3, 5 and 9. Years ago ABC determined that an entry angle of 2 degrees was optimal for pin carry. I assume the test ball was rolling end over end. I'm not sure I agree with this theory with todays big hooking balls.

Strikeking

glssmn2001 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:13:52 PM »

Thought it was 6 degrees and entering at the 17.5 board

DontJimmymeJewels · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2012, 12:17:14 PM »

How do you create more forward roll and less tilt? Trying to get the ball to not be so much skid-flip!

Everyone digs the trip 4!!!!

Smash49 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:16:07 PM »

That's kind of like asking which you would rather have more of the mumps or the measles.

Smash49

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aussiedave · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2012, 02:34:35 PM »

How do you create more forward roll and less tilt? Trying to get the ball to not be so much skid-flip!

The more under the ball your hand is at the point of release, the more end over end you will achieve - ergo, less tilt and hook.

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Edited by aussiedave on 2/15/2012 at 3:35 PM

Sunshine n Lollipops · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:03:20 PM »

Forward roll? Don't cock your wrist. Lead with ring finger. Set up with thumb parellel to floor. Keep it there until release, don't turn ball consciously. Just relax hand and it will naturally turn counter-clockwise giving you more than enough rotation. Proof? Put hand in front of you, turn hand til thumb is parellel to floor, put arm at side with hand by knee holding thumb position. Now relax your arm. See what your thumb does?

Forward roll is what let WRW Jr. break Earl Anthony's records. Not sexy as a big boomer but way more effective. High scores and winning jackpots is sexier to me than tilting the hell out of the ball and booming it.

2 degrees entry angle ideal?

?!!!!!!! Better research that again. You're missing about three to four degrees to be effective. 2 degrees is practically a straight ball. Do you find straight balls to be effective in carrying out the five pin?

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

Smash49 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2012, 07:23:20 AM »

Forward roll as long as it is at the right angle. My previous post was based on too much forward roll or rolled out and too high of axis tilt or spinner. Neither one is really desired for scoring.

Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
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LuckyLefty · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2012, 09:06:55 AM »

Hmmm,

Interesting question. I remember at one time I was axis tilt of 10 degrees and was told that was not so good by Mo Pinel.

I have changed pitches and tucked my baby finger and seen my inside carry go WAY up! It looks like my tilt is dramatically increased.

As to Axis rotation for league shots I would love to be 45 degrees. For sport I think 25 degrees looks nice on many of the patterns. For carrydown I like my usual 70 degrees of axis rotation. But not for Wet Dry!

Regards,

Luckylefty

PS I believe an attractive US open champ Kim

said back when the woman bowled a lot on TV that when the shots changed to sport from easier she found she needed to reduce her axis rotation dramatically. I don't think that is that easy for many!

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2012, 09:08:38 AM »

I'd rather rephrase the question: do you think you can moderate your release between axis tilt and forward roll? Both have its uses, but as a player you should not be "stuck" in either extreme - rather work on adjusting or compromising betwenn them as good as possible, when the lane calls for it. If someone is wailing for "more roll" or "more length", it is a sign to me that the release is just very limited.

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dR3w · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2012, 10:18:09 AM »

You know I have heard that 6 degrees rule my entire bowling life. I went to get coached by Mike Jasnau while at Nationals last year, and he said he would love to find out how that all got started and spread. He felt that it was too much entry angle. I don't recall the actual number he said was optimal, but it was more like 4 to 4.5 degrees.

And actually if you could throw a straight ball 60 feet from the 1 board to the 20 board, that would be 1.67 degrees. So say a lay down at 5 board, to 17.5 at pocket for a straight bowler would be 1 degree.

Just my 2 cents.

Sunshine n Lollipops wrote on 2/15/2012 5:03 PM:
Forward roll? Don't cock your wrist. Lead with ring finger. Set up with thumb parellel to floor. Keep it there until release, don't turn ball consciously. Just relax hand and it will naturally turn counter-clockwise giving you more than enough rotation. Proof? Put hand in front of you, turn hand til thumb is parellel to floor, put arm at side with hand by knee holding thumb position. Now relax your arm. See what your thumb does?

Forward roll is what let WRW Jr. break Earl Anthony's records. Not sexy as a big boomer but way more effective. High scores and winning jackpots is sexier to me than tilting the hell out of the ball and booming it.

2 degrees entry angle ideal??!!!!!!! Better research that again. You're missing about three to four degrees to be effective. 2 degrees is practically a straight ball. Do you find straight balls to be effective in carrying out the five pin?

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

dR3w

"This space for rent"

Edited by dR3w on 2/16/2012 at 11:18 AM

r534me · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2012, 10:39:47 AM »

I was looking over the BTM charts in the Jan 2012 edition(page 25) and for the three styles that bowled each has a different entry angles. The tweener seems to have the least amount of angle while the cranker had most. Four balls that I looked at were the omen, elevate, brick, and 811A. The crankers entry angles ranged from 7.05-7.9, the stroker, ranged from 5-6.6, and the tweener varied from 4- 5.5, but mostly in the 4 range. A lot depended on the pattern and the type of ball being used.

I remember BO Burton discussing 6 degrees in the ABC telecasts. I don't know if that how it got started or how scientific his statements were.

As far as the question is concerned tilt or forward roll should be used appropriately and the best players usually vary it when they need to.