Not everybody can use both hands, but everybody can buy balls and move to a different arrow! All the money in the world can't buy you the ability to use both hands. I can bowl right or left handed and people try to do it and they don't have the coordination to do so. I've always been able to pick the ball up with either hand and I don't have problems with footwork. They won't go along with it, never have, never will! Just my $.02, Bruce

Quote from: batbowler on September 16, 2013, 09:10:52 AM

Not everybody can use both hands, but everybody can buy balls and move to a different arrow! All the money in the world can't buy you the ability to use both hands. I can bowl right or left handed and people try to do it and they don't have the coordination to do so. I've always been able to pick the ball up with either hand and I don't have problems with footwork. They won't go along with it, never have, never will! Just my $.02, Bruce

Just because not everyone can do it, is not a good reason to not allow it.  Not everyone can switch hit but baseball doesn't prevent someone from doing it.  Not everyone can bowl two-handed, but it is allowed by USBC.  I love the argument GIZMO brings up because I can also bowl with either hand and would love the ability to use either based on the condition, the spare that I am shooting, etc.  Of course I also realize that this will probably never be allowed, mainly because of what batbowler mentions and that the ones that can't do will cry foul and that it is unfair.  These are the same bowlers who want to compete as equals but don't practice or put in the time that more competitive bowlers do.

In baseball you are not allowed to switch sides of the plate after the at bat has begun!

All you have to do is to not sanction your league and include it in the league rules.  Your chances of doing that are significantly higher than convincing USBC to amend a rule.

Bowling two handed and bowling with both hands is completely different.  The two handed release is still technically one handed.  People just refuse to accept that fact.  There are some that do accept it.  There is/are a rule(s) in regards to bowling with both hands and that is to establish an average using both hands; having one average for RH and a completely different average for LH.  It has been in place for as long as I can remember.  I know of a guy here in my city about 20 years ago that messed up his hand that he usually bowls with and was averaging 210 at the time.  He switched to left handed and established a completely different average.  Memory serves me correctly he averaged close to 180.  Once the injury was healed, he went back to his normal right handed delivery and thus had to use his 210 average again.  However, since he had 21 games with bowling left handed, he was in the book twice as both his right handed and left handed averages were reported.  As Jorge said......you cannot use a composite average for something like this because it can bring up more issues that resolutions.

Yeah, that makes sense, I've also had that happen.  Got injured, switched hands for a couple months, then went back.  Of course it was a scratch league so the handicap thing didn't factor into it, but see my response to Jorge for the other comments.  That's what I want to amend though, so you can use whichever hand you want at your discretion throughout the night/tournaments.  Yes, two handed bowling is basically still one hand, because there's still one hand that's dominant, but there is a difference.  I don't think being able to use a different hand completely is that much different from being two handed, it just offers a different benefit.  Two handers wouldn't throw with both hands if it didn't benefit them somehow, so I don't see this being any different.  You would still have one average, which is the highest of any average you have, and which would be established the first time you do it, which is no different from a new bowler establishing an entering average.  Average cap leagues would just use your highest average either right or left, because if you combine them, you can still choose to use your dominant hand period. 

Bowling two handed and bowling with both hands is completely different.  The two handed release is still technically one handed.  People just refuse to accept that fact.  There are some that do accept it.  There is/are a rule(s) in regards to bowling with both hands and that is to establish an average using both hands; having one average for RH and a completely different average for LH.  It has been in place for as long as I can remember.  I know of a guy here in my city about 20 years ago that messed up his hand that he usually bowls with and was averaging 210 at the time.  He switched to left handed and established a completely different average.  Memory serves me correctly he averaged close to 180.  Once the injury was healed, he went back to his normal right handed delivery and thus had to use his 210 average again.  However, since he had 21 games with bowling left handed, he was in the book twice as both his right handed and left handed averages were reported.  As Jorge said......you cannot use a composite average for something like this because it can bring up more issues that resolutions.

Gizmo,
      I see what your trying to do, but I think you aren't looking at it logically. While yes, your solutions might make it fair for everyone else, it doesn't make it very fair for the actual LH/RH bowler. If you go back to my example, why would any person bowl in the over 200 division and bowl LH when they are a much better bowler RH. They are basically throwing away 30 pins a game. And the few spares that they might think about switching hands to make, would you really bring in a bowler 30 pins below your average to make a spare for you, just because they were LH'd? I know I wouldn't so why do it even if that bowler is you. If, in the rare cases you need to make a 2-8-10 to win, it might make sense to do it, but how many times will this be the case? There is no way to do this that is fair to both the rest of the bowlers, and the person bowling RH/LH. Since that is the case, the best way to handle it is the way it is done now.....treat them as 2 separate individuals with 2 separate averages and the person makes the choice of which hand they will bowl with in a sanctioned tournament prior to starting competition ( I think it is fair to let them throw practice with either hand and make the decision after being on the lanes, but it must be done prior to throwing their first ball in competition).

Yeah, I get your points.  I'm thinking comfort zones, percentages, etc.  Like I said above, if I'm 95 percent on 10s right handed, but 98% left handed, I'm switching hands.  If we get a lot of traffic on the right side and ball changes and funky lines come into play, I'd rather switch hands and have a fresh shot left handed.  This is definitely not to have to bail me out of something or make up for some versatility I don't have, but when the options are tracked out, wet/dry, soft backends on the right side, but a fresh, clean, predictable shot lefty, the more intelligent choice is to go lefty and shoot 220 as opposed to struggling to a 200 or something on the right, those extra pins could be big for the team game.  It's what everybody does on the right side anyway, either switch balls or move inside to fresh oil, I'd just be moving to fresh oil on the left side with a more comfortable line. 

And I wasn't suggesting it be mandated for all ambi bowlers, those that want the LH/RH separation would still have it.  I suppose too that I'm wanting to combine them to use to more success across the board, I wouldn't just decide to go bowl a tournament only left handed, of course that wouldn't make any sense.  I'd still bowl predominantly righthanded, but the reason this comes up is that I've run into several situations where I'd like to switch hands based on what was going on.  We had 6 guys on the same pair on a second shift league last week that all play the same part of the lane.  Playing 3rd arrow quickly turned into playing 5th arrow, the mids got tight, and the backends got soft.  I know for a fact I'd have had an easier shot with more room on the left side, and this is a high dollar scratch league.  To make it even crazier, for a couple pairs at the low end of the league, we have a mens league in front of us, then for the remaining pairs on the high end, we have a mixed league in front of us, so the transition can be wildly different.  So why not just bowl that league left handed?  I still carry a higher average righty, and my spare percentage righty is higher. 

My finishing average last time I bowled league lefty was 205, but I started slow, and the last couple months of the season I was around 220, with a couple 700's in there (279/742 high), so I'm currently be a scratch bowler with both hands, I just don't have a sanctioned average that reflects that yet.  I suppose that's why I'm pushing for it, because either hand is a perfectly viable option given the circumstances, and I already don't get handicap anyway.  USBC would still have to make a rule adjustment though.  I also can't just show up and decide which hand I want to use for the night, because it creates average and eligibility issues, and I won't get into that, but also because ambi bowlers use the same sanction number, it's not viewed as a sub situation, it's viewed as a change that must be approved in a league meeting (at least in the leagues I'm in).

You're really correct, a lot of it doesn't make much sense, there's one side it definitely wouldn't be fair for.  Yeah, if I enter a tournament, it's going to be righthanded, but if we start moving pairs or get into some bad track burn, even as comfortable as I feel getting deep, it's still going to be a better, more comfortable shot lefty.  I realize the percentage of bowlers that are scratch bowlers from both sides is non existant, but there's another guy here in town that's better than I am at it, he's got 300s/800s from both sides.  He's mentioned wanting to do the same thing.  Am I going overboard mental on this?  Probably, but that's just the way my brain works.  Most of the time I'm going to be better righty, but if the situation arises where I think, "man, if I could just switch hands it would work so much better," it's gonna drive me nuts.  It's like going to a tournament only taking so many balls, practicing, then realizing a ball you chose to leave at home would have been perfect.  I'm an efficiency nut, so yeah, it irrationally frustrates me when I see a situation that could be better solved or satisfied with different means or methods, but not being able to utilize them.  If the shot tightens up to 2 boards of area, and I know I'd have 4 on the left side, that's where I want to go.  Makes no sense to be all prideful about it, especially when money is involved, and it's NO different than moving when the shot begins to break down initially.  You could say, "well if you're really good you could just stay in the same spot all night."  Yeah, you could, but why would anybody do that? 

I get your points and I'm not trying to shut you down, just trying to explain where I'm coming from.  Your points are great, and it at least helps me understand better why USBC most likely won't go for it, I hadn't thought about the majority of that. 

Gizmo,
      I see what your trying to do, but I think you aren't looking at it logically. While yes, your solutions might make it fair for everyone else, it doesn't make it very fair for the actual LH/RH bowler. If you go back to my example, why would any person bowl in the over 200 division and bowl LH when they are a much better bowler RH. They are basically throwing away 30 pins a game. And the few spares that they might think about switching hands to make, would you really bring in a bowler 30 pins below your average to make a spare for you, just because they were LH'd? I know I wouldn't so why do it even if that bowler is you. If, in the rare cases you need to make a 2-8-10 to win, it might make sense to do it, but how many times will this be the case? There is no way to do this that is fair to both the rest of the bowlers, and the person bowling RH/LH. Since that is the case, the best way to handle it is the way it is done now.....treat them as 2 separate individuals with 2 separate averages and the person makes the choice of which hand they will bowl with in a sanctioned tournament prior to starting competition ( I think it is fair to let them throw practice with either hand and make the decision after being on the lanes, but it must be done prior to throwing their first ball in competition).