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Author Topic: Bracket Players  (Read 3469 times)

Pinbuster

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Bracket Players
« on: February 18, 2004, 06:39:25 PM »
I don’t understand the bracket phenomena. Hose mentioned in another post that a backer of a high roller participant had him fly back for a league because of the bracket money.

If the same handful of guys win the lion share of the money every week why do all the pigeons keep getting in? I realize I’m a little cheap with my money. But if I got in brackets for a couple of months and lost my shirt virtually every week I’d quit getting in.

Now everyone here is going to chime in and say how wonderful they do in brackets. But for every winner there are at least 6 losers. Why do the losers keep getting in?

I guess it is the lottery mentality.

 

Sir Bowl-A-Lot

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2004, 09:45:28 AM »
I win almost as often as I lose.  It also rewards you (most of the time) when you bowl really good.  For example, if I avg. 215 and were to bowl a 794 set and not qualify for any ABC awards, I would at least get a little money out of it I would think.  It also adds a little excitement and competition to the game.  Just my opinion.
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The Hose

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2004, 09:50:13 AM »
Egos will not let guys stay out of brackets even when they have no chance.  Just look at the ABC.  I see guys getting in "All" of the brackets and they couldn't average 180 on a THS.  

I try to pick and choose when I load up on brackets.  Keep in mind, that league is huge and most of Dallas' Big Dogs bowl in it.  Guys can make a couple of grand in a good night.  I've heard that it's not as big a bracket league as it was a couple of years ago.
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tenpinspro

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2004, 10:14:04 AM »
Hey Pin,

I tend to agree with you because of what I always have defined as the "transition" game.  For instance, a couple of weeks ago, I shot 249, 200, and 257., my typical trend is to shoot one bad game in the set and in brackets, that'll cost me.  I however love pot games because of this, I would've won 2 out of 3 maybe.  I think there are quite a few guys however that couldn't shoot individual games as high as I do but shoot more consistently throughout and this I feel are the bracket players.  They end up not getting in pots as much but invest in brackets because this set up is more advantageous to their scoring pattern.  There's also the luck of the draw theory, most guys know they can't beat certain players in a league but on a percentage basis, they can keep up with most on an average, so again, they won't win a pot but could beat the guy next to them to still make money.  Just my thoughts...
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Gravy

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2004, 10:14:41 AM »
The pay out in brackets are usually 5 to 1 for the winner and 2 to 1 for the runner up. so you can have 3 or 4 bad weeks and still make money. The other thing is that you don't have to bowl the highest game to advance. There will be nights that you make money and not score very well.

I noticed to tougher the shot the money seems to be spread out among more bowlers. If your not on a good team you still have something to shoot for. Another benefit is than eliminates some sandbagging.

I really like it in tournaments, If I have a couple of bad games and I'm out of contention, one good 3 game set can actually make you money for the tournament. If you like to bowl tournaments you got to give yourself as many opportunies to win some cash.

tenpinspro

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2004, 11:48:58 AM »
Hey Bones,

Bowlwbj presents a valid point, for every time that we enter a tournament, are we just gambling?  One giant pot game that encompasses 3, 8, 42 games that runs longer then a league nite, is there a difference?  We're putting in money to beat a score, isn't that like having a pot game?

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RSalas

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2004, 12:01:44 PM »
I usually avoid brackets because of the 12.5 percent rake.  At least in Vegas, I'm only giving away 0.6 percent when I play double-odds craps.
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seadrive

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2004, 12:09:49 PM »
I was just going to start the same topic...

Like Pinbuster, I don't understand the attraction of brackets for lower-level bowlers.  By "lower-level", I don't mean bad, just not near the top of the heap in a particular league or tournament.

You're bowling for your own money.  The best guys are going to win most of the time, just like the best teams usually win the bulk of the prize fund.  If, after half the season is over, you put in $300 for brackets, and got back $150, why would you continue to play?  You're overmatched, why donate more than you already are?

There's a sucker born every minute, I guess.  Bowling just seems to have more than its fair share...
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Edited on 2/19/2004 1:05 PM

mumzie

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2004, 12:14:04 PM »
My tournament association does brackets. We keep the $5 per bracket in the organization bank account to help defray expenses. Also - the computer RANDOMLY generates every match, so it stays pretty fair.
When we have a bye in a bracket, we just don't take the $5 off the top.

The brackets on Tuesday are ones I don't get into any more. They're run manually by the wife of one of the bowlers. Although I think she tries to keep it fairly random, she does the drawing/assigning of spots herself, and I got really tired of entering 2 brackets every week, and ALWAYS hitting the same player in the second game.
Never failed. Week after week, in BOTH brackets, I'd be up against one of the highest 2 averages in the league. I just don't particpate in those any more.

On my wed league, one of the bowlers runs the brackets on the side, because he LOVES the numbers. He has an incredibly numbers-oriented brain, and he'd do brackets for no money just to watch the numbers. He takes the $5 "rake" and puts it in an 'end of year' pot that is paid out on a point system that only he understands. I got back $50 extra bucks at the banquet last year - I didn't expect it, so it was pretty nice. He has the bowlers draw numbers - if there are 8 brackets for the night, you'll draw 1-64. Although not foolproof, it's pretty good.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2004, 12:23:00 PM »
The other thing is the guy who loses $25 in brackets every week is generally the guy who is complaining about the cost of bowling.  League fees $12, beer $8, brackets $25 looks like he could cut his costs easily.

RSalas

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2004, 12:27:47 PM »
mumzie:  You just touched on one of the circumstances under which I *would* participate in brackets.  Not all of the bracket operators out here will pocket the entire rake.  For example, some will donate a portion of it to the local Junior program, while others will pay out additional prizes such as high losing score in the second game.  In these cases, I'll consider getting in...depending on the level of the competition.  
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tenpinspro

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2004, 12:30:53 PM »
Wait Bones,

In a tournament, you're also not on the exact same pairs as other individuals, so is that no longer competition?  If it's not, then it's gambling.

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just joe

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2004, 12:37:27 PM »
Have to agree with the "The Curse..". The person running our league takes 25%. $3.00 brackets, takes $6.00 of the $24.00. Then get a snub if you don't tip. I will also avoid brackets.

jimensminger

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2004, 12:51:13 PM »
I have high average in the 2 leagues I bowl in, 232 and 229. Both leagues have brackets, high pots, etc. I never get in either. On the Typical House Shots it's the league bowler who get's lucky that night that wins...the playing field in leagues has been leveled too much to make it profitable. Putting up a $100 bucks a night in hopes of maybe breaking even is not my idea of a good time...
I tried it for years,...and breaking even was a win.
If ya want to win week after week,....run the brackets..

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Edited on 2/19/2004 1:48 PM

Mikey C

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Re: Bracket Players
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2004, 01:11:54 PM »
And why should these people do this for free? In tournaments there are expenses like laptop computers, printers, bracket software etc. Are you telling me that someone should do this for no cost and even at a loss? I didn't agree with it in our leagues, but the headache of keeping them makes me think different. Having to chase down scores, keep track of the money, listen to the complaining when someone gets beat, and trying to bowl myself, makes this an unwanted headache. Unfortunatly, no one else does it as well, so I get asked or rather begged to do it. I'm curious if the people who don't like someone getting a cut for providing these services are the same ones who think pro shops are too "expensive" for there services?

Edited on 2/19/2004 2:09 PM