Post by: punkrawk77 on December 03, 2005, 04:47:19 PM
I was just at my pro shop today and they want $219 for Ebonite The One. Thats not counting tax, drilling, thumb slug, finger inserts, etc.
Online proshops are selling it around $125, about $140ish total for shipping and if you have it drilled by them your still way under the cost you would pay to just buy it from the pro shop without drilling.
Once I bought my dexter SST 5 LX shoes from my pro shop. I didn't realize it but I paid almost $25 dollars more through them than if I would have bought them online. I felt like I got ripped off a little.
Anyone have any comments or experiences purchasing balls w/ drilling through online vendors?
Post by: a_ak57 on December 04, 2005, 05:39:42 PM
quote:
The proshop I go to is way cheaper than the internet! I paid $72 after shipping for a PG Dry/r. After drilling (which was $25 with finger tips and slug), it was $97. That same day I saw in the prop shop he was selling the same ball for $79 with drilling, thumb slug and finger grips! So, I guess it's how bad of a jew your pro shop guy is. Mine isn't @ all and think god for it.
I am thinking about getting a BVP Goliath, and hes going to charge me $110. Not bad since after shipping on the internet it's..$104.
-Chris
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Brunswick, Buzzsaw and Morich just hit harder... and that's all there is to it!
Video of me!
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4SAQMQ7L
Your comparison isn't that great. Most people would tell you there is little benefit to buying an entry line or mid-line ball from an internet pro shop, for the reason you just saw. But, when you can pick up stuff like the Paradigm for 130 shipped or less, it becomes a bigger factor.
PS- You are lucky though. 110 drilled for a BVP ball is a good price for sure. ARound 150 drilled in the shops vaguely close to me.
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- Andy
Post by: brinen28 on December 04, 2005, 05:41:48 PM
The customer makes an order, and a distributor ships it out. You said 127 for the ONE. I can tell you for a fact that my pro shop guy cannot get the ball for that amount. So why should a pro shop sell it for LESS than what he pays, and still needs to make up overhead.
The other thing is, a lot of pro shops in my area have their prices with DRILLING INCLUDED (I dont know, its just how it is). So, you have to keep that in mind. There are too many guys out there that pay 127 for THE ONE, and then complain when they are slapped with a 60 Drill Fee. Lets see here, how much do you really think you should be saving. Geez... Even if the shop sells it for 189, you are STILL SAVING MONEY.
If you do not like the cost of drilling, go out and buy yourself a drill press, a ball scale, some drill bits, and then you can drill your own stuff.
I for one will always go to my local pro shop, unless I can get something used from someone on here.
Post by: TWOHAND834 on December 04, 2005, 05:48:33 PM
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Steven Vance
Atlanta (Buford), GA
Pro Shop Operator
Advanced Bowling Solutions
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: a_ak57 on December 04, 2005, 05:55:36 PM
Next time take the time to read before you paste the same thing you always say. Because your little rant just failed.
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- Andy
Post by: brinen28 on December 04, 2005, 06:02:53 PM
That is absurd. I paid $172 with drilling and all. My pro shop guy makes a decent living too, selling them at this price. If you were someone just to walk in, $189 drilled + tax.
I was going off of that example.
Post by: Bowling General on December 04, 2005, 06:06:13 PM
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Bowling General
Bowling Lanes, Pins & Balls
www.bowlingartworks.com
Post by: BrunsMike on December 04, 2005, 08:10:23 PM
quote:
local pro shop is the key here, the money will stay in your town and I would beat some of it would go to support your Local bowling lanes, if the pro shop owner bowls. If I would ever have a problem my pro shop would take care of me. That counts for a lot to me.
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Bowling General
Bowling Lanes, Pins & Balls
www.bowlingartworks.com
Im with this guy. I've tried several Pro Shops to finally find one that knows how to drill a ball for me where its extremely comfortable on release. I used to buy online all the time. Never had a real problem with getting the ball with my preferred specs. I just thought about it a while back and figured id rather support a local proshop then paysome one ill never meet. I get decent discounts, free inserts at any time, I can get a ball drilled and pay for it at a later time, that sort of stuff. Thats something you wont get at a online proshop plus you get the friendship of the proshop owner.
Post by: Elite_Digger on December 04, 2005, 08:18:12 PM
Digs
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Never argue with an idiot....They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 05, 2005, 07:49:41 AM
1. A lower price tag is not always everything.
2. The customer service a local pro shop can offer is a valuable tool for you to use as a growing bowler. Notice I say "can be"....some pro shops I have been in are nothing more than guys with a drill press who want to make money...beware!!!
3. Online is your only choice on many occasions if you are looking for old, discontinued or hard to find items.
4. It is all but inmpossible for your local shop to stock one of everything....the $$$$ and space constraints are just unreal.
I am still a firm advocate of going to the local guys first. If the local guys are junk, by all means go elsewhere. The ability of an in-house to turn on a pair of lanes and have you throw a ball or 2 before and after drilling is a huge advantage. Not only can I get an accurate reading of your track, rev rate and PAP specs but also see your style. After the sale I can watch the bowler to see if the fit is what he needs, see if the ball reads the lane where it is supposed to, check the reaction and such. ALl of the post-purchase adjustments from me are free...sand, polish, bevel, change finger size or thumb size etc...but only if you buy the ball from me.
More than likely the reason the local guy is more expensive is because he cannot generate enough volume in sales to get the super deals that the online resellers do. Most online guys get hooked up with a major supplier and they work together to get a better price by buying direct from the manufacturer. The "little guy" just can't do that unless he gets some help from the local clientele.
As for my pricing, it's pretty standard but I think it's a great deal if you take advantage of the included benefits. Drilled and out the door pricing examples:
Storm Paradigm...$205
Ebonite The One...$195
Columbia EPX-T1...$215
Brunswick Power Grooves...$110
Columbia White Dots...$65
Lane 1 Tsunami...$205
Lane 1 XXXL...$134
Ebonite Big Time...$140
Included in the price are the following:
Drilling
Finger inserts
Thumb Slug
Free weekly cleanings
Surface adjustments
1/2 price replacement inserts
Coaching if needed to help with adjustments
Free emergency repair
Discounts on accessories if purchased at the same time
Entry into my incentive program (throw an honor score with the ball and receive a $50 gift certificate to my shop)
I also offer discounts based on the amount of product you have purchased from me over the last 6-12 months. You can bet your arse I am going to give the guy who buys 6 balls a year a price break....but that guy that buys a ball every 3 years is going to pay full price.
I don't know of ANY online seller that can offer that to the customers. I even extend this offer to people across the Net....you buy the ball from me, send me your specs, I'll drill it and ship it to you.
So as I said price isn't everything...service is. As a retail manager I have custoemr service drilled into my head on a daily basis and it is true...take care of your custoemrs and they will take care of you.
But if you want to talk price and why local is USUALLY (Not always but usually) more expensive you need to look no further than the following items:
1. Cost of stocking inventory...do you think that every pro shop owns all of what it has in stock...if you do, think again
2. Rent...many shops pay as much as $3-4000 per month in rent. I am fortunate and house owned shops don't pay but still it's there for most in 1 form or another.
3. Cost of doing business...most guys online use their computer and that's it. In addition to printer ink the local guy has the following: layout pencils and tools, polish, sandpaper, rags, invoice pads, drill spec pads, inserts to stock, interest being paid on their stock inventory, drill bits, drill bit sharpening, drilling equipment and maintenance, transportation to and from the pro shop, laundry (not only clothing but also rags, towels and polishing cloths), etc, etc etc....
What I can guarantee is this....you support the local guy and he'll take care of you. But if you bring in 5 balls per year off the Internet he'll charge you to drill them and you may come out ahead financially but I guarantee (unless he's good friend or something) that you won't get the top notch service and consideration as if you bought them there.
This is only my view but, again, I think I have a pretty good view since I am personally involved in all 3 aspects of this topic...customer, physical shop owner and an Internet site seller...
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Join the FOS by throwing the newest Wave of Destruction from Lane#1...
Get your hands on a Tsunami today!
Post by: kalannar on December 05, 2005, 10:38:38 AM
Mike
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That which does not kill us strengthens us.
So do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
Member of the F.O.S.***Black Cherry Bomb***
***Cherry Pearl C2***
***H2O***
Post by: toomanytenpins on December 05, 2005, 05:05:27 PM
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 05, 2005, 08:45:16 PM
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Brick
Post by: Cbjdc on December 05, 2005, 09:40:35 PM
I recently travelled back home to my stomping grounds to visit family and some friends. Visited my local proshop and the guy who is my friend sold me two balls who was respectivles 180 dollars for a paradigm with drilling and grips and all. and another ball which was 140 dollars. After league this guy comes up to me after bowling league who runs the proshop where I currently live. And I quote did we do something to make you mad (mind you all I have ever gotten from this proshop is some ball work done) I havent purchased a ball yet at all or anything. He tells me he noticed that I had the new equipment and wanted to know if they had made me mad. Come one number one you dont come to a person to ask them why they did something? Am I just really over reacting or is this justified. I mean I saved almost 120 dollars per ball as opposed to this proshop where I live. What do you guys think?
Post by: charlest on December 06, 2005, 04:55:26 AM
Some version of what you described should go into the Ballreviews FAQ that "Storm-Track" maintains.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: MillWorker on December 06, 2005, 07:26:45 AM
I respectfully disagree with one aspect of your comment.
____________________________________________________________________________
"What I can guarantee is this....you support the local guy and he'll take care of you. But if you bring in 5 balls per year off the Internet he'll charge you to drill them and you may come out ahead financially but I guarantee (unless he's good friend or something) that you won't get the top notch service and consideration as if you bought them there."
_____________________________________________________________________________
My pro shop uses a la carte pricing. Labor is labor and it doesn't matter where you buy the retail product. The consumer is paying for a drilling service similar to any other labor charge, time and skill. I give my customers the same services you mentioned in your post and I do it no matter where they bought the ball. In fact, I love drilling balls purchased elsewhere. I have no asset dollars tied up in inventory and I get the labor. It's a win for everyone. The customer gets the product they want at the price they want to pay and they get a ball professionally fit and drilled.
Post by: Easy10pins on December 06, 2005, 07:29:41 AM
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: 2EZ on December 06, 2005, 09:22:49 AM
quote "You said 127 for the ONE. I can tell you for a fact that my pro shop guy cannot get the ball for that amount."
Have him go to http://www.bowling.com. He can get one there for $125.99, free shipping.
Post by: shelley on December 06, 2005, 09:41:26 AM
quote:
After league this guy comes up to me after bowling league who runs the proshop where I currently live. And I quote did we do something to make you mad (mind you all I have ever gotten from this proshop is some ball work done) I havent purchased a ball yet at all or anything. He tells me he noticed that I had the new equipment and wanted to know if they had made me mad. Come one number one you dont come to a person to ask them why they did something? Am I just really over reacting or is this justified. I mean I saved almost 120 dollars per ball as opposed to this proshop where I live. What do you guys think?
If he sees you as a good customer or even a potential customer, I can understand what he said. Of course, online, we can't "hear" how he said it, whether he was upset or curious or anything. From my perspective, it's possible he's simply trying to figure out why you didn't come to him, maybe he wants to know if there's a competitor out there he needs to be aware of, maybe he's worried his service is slipping.
If that is the case, your answer is easy: Tell him you saw a really great deal back home that you just couldn't pass up. You have nothing against his work (well, if that's true), but that deal was too good to miss. If he's a good guy, he'll understand. If he's one of those guys that hides your specs so you can't take them somewhere else, he won't, and you should avoid him anyway.
SH
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 06, 2005, 10:01:41 AM
If I buy a ball on-line and take it to the local PRO SHOP for drilling .. I'll pay the price for drilling and I EXPECT the pro shop to stand behind the drilling. If the drilling IS UNCOMFORTABLE .. needs to be adjusted .. or anything else about the drilling .. I EXPECT the local PRO SHOP to adjust as required .. there is NO CONSIDERATION for WHERE THE BALL WAS PURCHASED .. I paid for a service that has to be to MY SATISFACTION.
I get the impression here that it is implied that this service is based on WHERE YOU BOUGHT THE BALL .. that would be VERY UNFAIR!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: shelley on December 06, 2005, 10:18:39 AM
quote:
I get the impression here that it is implied that this service is based on WHERE YOU BOUGHT THE BALL .. that would be VERY UNFAIR!
Absolutely true. I understand being resentful that someone didn't buy the ball from the pro shop. They want to sell the complete package. But if the driller screws up, I don't care how, they should fix it. If he drops the ball on the floor and it splits in half, that's his fault and he should replace the ball. If he puts the thumb hole 1/8" too far away, fix it. What part of the origin of the ball made him do the thumb wrong?
I understand giving repeat, local customers a break. Giving them a good deal on multiple-ball purchases. Offering additional incentives like replacement grips or a free resurfacing.
But nickel-and-diming your customers who bought a ball off the internet is silly. They see you charging for every little thing, what makes them think you won't do the same if they bought the ball there? They're just as likely to think "Good thing I saved money on the ball, because everything else costs so much. If I had bought it here, it'd've been another $40." Nevermind that you'd've comped 'em $40 worth of work.
SH
Post by: ChrispyBrownies on December 06, 2005, 09:59:14 PM
I am on my high school bowling team, #1 in the state of KY, and our coach is Chuck Farish. He coaches his son Daniel Farish, who is a Junior Gold American bowler for the U.S. Chuck owns his own pro shop. Of course, his son gets balls when he wants, for free. The Team has a discounted price also. for instance, I am planning to get a Smokin Inferno. Online, its $125.99. In his Pro shop, with drilling, its $200.00. I can get the ball online and have it drilled at his pro shop for $175.00 ($50 for drilling, and thats discounted). It really stinks they cant have the same prices.
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Its hard to play with an inferno and not get burned. Last time I threw my inferno, the opposing bowler definitely got burned.
Post by: sheppy335 on December 07, 2005, 06:31:26 AM
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Oil is served Best with fingers!
Why does the 8 Pin laugh at me!
Sheppy
Post by: charlest on December 07, 2005, 08:00:16 AM
quote:
Ha, what do know. Been like that forever.
I am on my high school bowling team, #1 in the state of KY, and our coach is Chuck Farish. He coaches his son Daniel Farish, who is a Junior Gold American bowler for the U.S. Chuck owns his own pro shop. Of course, his son gets balls when he wants, for free. The Team has a discounted price also. for instance, I am planning to get a Smokin Inferno. Online, its $125.99. In his Pro shop, with drilling, its $200.00. I can get the ball online and have it drilled at his pro shop for $175.00 ($50 for drilling, and thats discounted). It really stinks they cant have the same prices.
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Its hard to play with an inferno and not get burned. Last time I threw my inferno, the opposing bowler definitely got burned.
And you would have him make zero profit for providing you with a ball and drilling for what reason now?
You do realize that if he sold you an Inferno for $125, he would make no money, in fact he would be out the cost of shipping, IF he were lucky enough to be able to buy the Inferno for $125. Many pro shops can't get that ball for that price.
You do realize it costs him money to buy the ball and to drill it. You would have him deny his family valid earnings because .. you're a special friend of his? or are you just a student of his?
Why do you think $200 for a drilled Inferno is unfair?
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 07, 2005, 08:14:47 AM
I stand behind my work 100%. If I mess up spans, pitches , hole sizes etc I'll fix/ replace at my own cost and have done so on repeated occasions. What I won't do for the Internet ball customer is offer the service package, incentive or personal guarantee on the ball's effectiveness because they did not buy the ball from me. If I disagree with the ball choice or specs I will inform the customer as such before we start and then I will do everything I can to make it work for them. Let's face it that $29.99 Ebay PowerGroove with the 4" pin and 5 oz of top weight is NOT going to work for everyone.
For those on a la carte pricing, that's fine. I have been there and done that. It does not work for me here. The year I went to that system my sales went down by 40% because people refused to "pay such an outrageous fee to have a bowling ball drilled." I guess $45 for teh drilling with inserts and slug was too much. I only marked the ball itself up 15% so I didn't think I was out of line.
Anyway...just wanted to clear the air on an issue that seems a bit cloudy.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Join the FOS by throwing the newest Wave of Destruction from Lane#1...
Get your hands on a Tsunami today!
Post by: shelley on December 07, 2005, 08:26:52 AM
quote:
won't do for the Internet ball customer is offer the service package, incentive or personal guarantee on the ball's effectiveness because they did not buy the ball from me.
That seems like a good attitude to me. It's not your fault if they bought the wrong ball. You're doing your best with what you have to work with (which, in most cases, probably isn't that hard) and I doubt you give them a lot of attitude about it.
quote:
I guess $45 for teh drilling with inserts and slug was too much. I only marked the ball itself up 15% so I didn't think I was out of line.
You wouldn't consider moving to MS, would you?
SH
Post by: clintdaley on December 07, 2005, 08:51:54 AM
PS I sell ALL high end balls (except EPXs) for $189 + tax, which includes drilling, grips and a slug.
PLUS....just ran into a case where I drilled a Goliath for a gentleman who buys EVERYTHING online....brought it in, I drilled it, but needed a weight hole. Now, the ball is cracking around the weighthole for whatever reason (pin is leverage, no where close to the weighthole) and he brought it back to me to see what I can do. Well, I deal with 3 distributors, and I have not ordered a Goliath from either...so neither one will take the return from me. Now he has to send it back to the online company, wait to hear what they say, and then go forward depending on what their decision is. If he would have purchased it from me, I would have had an answer for him in 2-3 days from my distributor and another ball within a week (tops) if they warranteed it...this way...he has already waited 3 weeks and no answer!
Clint
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Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
TRACK ADVISORY PRO SHOP STAFF
http://www.trackbowling.com/
http://www.startabowlingrevolution.com/
Edited on 12/7/2005 9:46 AM
Post by: MegaMav on December 07, 2005, 12:14:11 PM
the pro shop guy that does my work is great.
charges $30 for drilling and grips.
which is 100% reasonable and 75% profit.
and he is the best ball driller in the area, im a little biased though.
his infernos are 209 drilled, im unsure if thats with or without grips, or tax.
but i got my inferno from buddies for $110 + $30 drilling = $140
yeah! duh! $70+ difference!
look at the picture link below.
all are a result of ebay and buddiesproshop.com
and all of them except for 1 have prime specs (raven quantum 4.7 top)
if i bought from a proshop i'd probably have only about 3 or 4 balls
inferno, danger zone, combat zone tracer.
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USBC Sanctioned Bowler
Average: 211
My Arsenal (http://"http://members.fortunecity.com/megamav/all.htm") (Complete)
Post by: MegaMav on December 07, 2005, 02:46:49 PM
im finally done wheeling and dealing for balls.
ive got all the ones i want for the next 10 years.