Author Topic: Can anyone save Pro Bowling? (Read 7170 times)

Bjaardker · « **on:** October 10, 2006, 04:08:15 AM »

(moved this from the PWBA forum because I would like to get more input on this & start a conversation)

I think that saving pro bowing all hinges on the USBC revolutionizing the sport itself & getting people to come back to bowling.

There's no mystique to bowling anymore. When you watch Tiger nail a chip shot from 180 yds out & hit it within 2 ft of the hole, you're in awe. But almost any jackhole can throw the front 5 or 6 now days. It's not magical. If they brought back the sport to bowling, gave people reasons to compete again, then people would watch it on TV.

Why do so many people watch golf? Because so many people are golfing as a sport. People wont watch bowling on TV anymore, because they can't relate to it. Now I know what you're thinking, tens of millions of people bowl every year. However, there's a huge difference between some people going out & bowling for a fun evening, and Bob & the guys getting together on a tuesday morning to hit the links. People are no longer bowling as a sport, it's become just a game, and that's not changing any time soon thanks to an incompetant USBC. It's no coincedence that around the same time ABC dropped the PBA, leagues were folding all over the country & memberships to the ABC & the WIBC were in decline.

IMHO It's going to take a network TV contract to save the pro bowling tours. Without the revenue from such a contract, I don't see the PBA lasting much longer, let alone the PWBA coming back. Only problem is, unless you're producing a product people want to watch, and are excited about, the networks wont be interested. I think this starts with the USBC.

SKIDSNAP · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:57:32 PM »

Professional bowling is dying.

Lost their consistent time slot. Lost their format. Players lost their incentives.

Lost the chance that new faces can make a show versus the same dull boring ugly people week after week

Pro bowling does not sell bowling balls as in the past so manufacturers have no interest in helping support the events.

I am still trying to formulate a solution. Right now I am still stuck in evaluating what is going wrong versus what could go right.

The only advantage I see so far is that the most consistant bowling watching demographic men and women 55+ aren't dying off nearly as fast as they used to but they need to find a way to bring younger viewers to the table.

DonSVO · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:59:12 PM »

Tiger broke from the mold... old white guys swinging wooden clubs and sporting more plaid than a quilter's convention. We need that. He was young, attractive, black and had a HUGE aura. He is extremely personable and fun to watch!

If kelly klulick breaks it off in a few guy's asses on TV, we're gonna see a shift. Hopefully, we can find a way to get that smoking hot Diandra Asbaty on TV! I am afraid to say I would be VERY interested in watching her uhhhh, form.

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Brunswick and Lane #1... there is no other.

Fluff E Bunnie · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:05:06 PM »

quote:
Tiger broke from the mold... old white guys swinging wooden clubs and sporting more plaid than a quilter's convention. We need that. He was young, attractive, black and had a HUGE aura. He is extremely personable and fun to watch!

If kelly klulick breaks it off in a few guy's asses on TV, we're gonna see a shift. Hopefully, we can find a way to get that smoking hot Diandra Asbaty on TV! I am afraid to say I would be VERY interested in watching her uhhhh, form.
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Brunswick and Lane #1... there is no other.

Bowling has already updated its image though. This whole thing is so funny to me. I think it's silly that you need a specific sex or race winning to get ratings. Stupid stuff.

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I mean what's next, WRW in a Codpiece if the mens tour suffers? - Nodsleinad

RealBowler · « **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:06:20 PM »

quote:

At least the Women's Challenge stepped it up a notch. I think they need to reimage bowling with a cool-factor, not the apple pie approach.

You plan on doing that with Patrick Allen, Mike Scroggins, Tommy Jones, and Walter Ray?

Good luck with that.

Maybe with Brian Voss, PDW, and Danny Wiseman. Sorry, but most of those guys look like schmoes and have no personality.

That's what happens when you try to turn a game into a sport.

Let's all just face it, bowling isn't a sport. It's going to be regulated to the same status as Darts, Billiards, and the National Spelling Bee.

Add to that the fact that the insist on trying to go head-to-head with the NFL on Sunday and you are just setting yourself up for failure!

If you are going to market bowling as a family sport, you do not decide to air bowling on the one day that families are most likely to get together to bowl! And you do not decide to air it on the same day (and time) that the majority of bowlers are going to be home watching football or NASCAR!

How many more people do you think would be likely to watch if it was shown on a weeknight? They would have more time to edit the shows and make them more interesting. They could cut interviews into the games and make the bowlers more interesting, a la the WPT or WSOP broadcasts.

I agree with the idea of the UV in the oil to help demonstrate the conditions. Randy has tried to do better at explaining the patterns and how they breakdown, but non-bowlers (and even recreational bowlers) aren't very likely to understand. Similar to poker, a lot of "regular people" don't understand the odds that they show for each of the hands. Same with golf, unless you can get some sort of computer aided graphic to show the undulation of the green, most people don't care that the green plays "a little high and to the left." Joe Schmoe doesn't give a darn about the breakpoint unless he knows what it means!
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Haywood

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I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
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Fluff E Bunnie · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:11:26 PM »

FYI - Bowling in a mall is not cool. Nice try though, but it made no sense. Unless you were going with the stereotype that women love malls or something.

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I mean what's next, WRW in a Codpiece if the mens tour suffers? - Nodsleinad

RealBowler · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:21:33 PM »

quote:
FYI - Bowling in a mall is not cool. Nice try though, but it made no sense. Unless you were going with the stereotype that women love malls or something.

Well, yeah, all women love malls because all women love to shop.

And, all women love to get their hair done and have make-overs!

New clothes, make-up, new "do," and go bowling.......it all goes hand in hand!
--------------------
Haywood

**************************
I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
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LuckyLefty · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:35:15 PM »

All showman...from PT Barnum and before know...that "Educating" doesn't lead to sales or viewers...Excitement does!

These guys who produced the ladies shoes should take over production of the PBA!
They KNOW what they are doing!

Killer Bs...!!

REgards,

Luckylefty

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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Rileybowler · « **Reply #23 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:50:11 PM »

Maybe I'm weird but I don't watch golf its boring to me I do watch every bowling match that comes on tv because I very much like bowling and I love the sport. Its going to take a concerted effort from the USBC, the bowlers and the owners of bowling alleys. I think its going to take some harder documented conditions maybe changing every few weeks something similar to the PBA and its going to take some regulation on bowling ball manufactories, its not going to happen over night but I think it has to start happening soon. Some of the bowling houses may balk at new regulations who knows they may be satisfied with just keeping open bowling maybe a lineage increase a lot of questions and solutions from all concerned but I think it has to start at the USBC
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Carl

qstick777 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:50:16 PM »

quote:
All showman...from PT Barnum and before know...that "Educating" doesn't lead to sales or viewers...Excitement does!

These guys who produced the ladies shoes should take over production of the PBA!
They KNOW what they are doing!

Killer Bs...!!

REgards,

Luckylefty

--------------------

Perhaps they should just produce an entire season of the trick shots/challenge series and have a short 10-15 minute recap of the tournaments?

Not saying that would make it better, but my wife didn't have a problem sitting down and watching the challenge.....the one they showed at the end of the season (after they edited everything together). Now, getting her to sit down and watch the actual tournaments is a totally different story!
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LuckyLefty · « **Reply #25 on:** October 10, 2006, 04:21:36 PM »

I don't believe the trick shots is the answer(ratings went down the second season)....viewers had seen that ONCE!

Along the lines of the USBC bowlers challenge...have you paid attention to what has happened with the formerly staid Woman's pool. Low cuts bending over a pool table which started with Jenny Lee turned the ratings upside down on the men! Skyrocketing viewership.

Maybe we could get Jenny Lee and Ewa Lawrence to compete against sizzlers Clara Guerraro, Sara Vargas...(columbian hotty also), Diandra Ashbaty in a joint pool bowling match!

If you want to take a similar choice for the men...it would start with Brian Voss and Pete Weber(showmanship)...

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS...I actually view where this is going...Woman's bowling back up! Men's bowling continued downward sliding ratings and profits(imagine a table tipping downward)!
Pete Weber(every week),
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

RealBowler · « **Reply #26 on:** October 10, 2006, 04:28:27 PM »

quote:
I think Bowling can do a little better than Darts and Billiards. Bowling is suffering right now. The women have the right idea. The fact that they are Bowling in a Mall with all the distractions, etc is saying something. They are not just Bowling in a Boring Alley. We knew that the PBA would not continue to be able to have the purses they had.

As for people not Bowling. Well here where I live, people carry 230 averages and are basically afraid to step up on a Sport condition or the PBA. They like wowing everyone with their bloated averages. I Personally Love Bowling. I have not heard anyone else say that. I Bowl 3 nights a week and love it. I have a Online Shop and a Pro Shop. My life is Bowling. It can and will get better. Remember ABC ruined the sport. USBC is only just beginning. I agree with the fact that Bowling for the PBA and PWBA needs MAJOR sponsors. We need a Nike, or someone. Not Denny's. As for the scoring in Bowling, I am having a hard time understanding why everyone does not want to see high scores. They might be a little fake but like someone said about Baseball. Noone wants to watch a low scoring game. Same with Bowling. Don't you feel bad when someone Bowls a 100 game? Wouldn't you rather them enjoy themselves and be proud of their score? Bowling is FUN. I want to see High scores. If they are getting them because of the Ball, who cares? Tiger Woods can not hit a Ball as far as He does with the old kind of Golf Club. He has state of the art equipment that I am sure makes him look better. So stop ragging Bowling. Make it better. Get people to join. Watch the telecasts instead of Football. BOWLING IS GREAT!!!!!!!

I don't think anybody has a problem with high scoring. I think the problem is that Joe Schmoe doesn't realize that the pro's are bowling on completely different conditions than what they get during cosmic bowling.

Any schmuck can take a house ball and throw it down there and get a couple of strikes. Why do they want to watch the pros get out there and shoot 190's games? Go out one night and watch the cosmic bowlers and check out their scores.....it's not unrealistic to see some college kid get close to 200, no thumbing it while drinking beers with his buddies.

Now, compare that to somebody trying to kick a 40 yard field goal, hit a 300+ yard driver off the tee, drain a couple of 3 pointers with somebody in your face, hit a 90+ mph fast ball for a homerun. People have to "get" that the pros are doing something special.

Other than the poker phenomenon, which I don't understand why people want to sit down and watch people play poker.....blackjack on TV hasn't taken off as much, so it must be the production on the show, because it ain't all that exciting!

People watch pro sports because they understand that the pros are doing something special. Same thing with Arena football and the XFL....compared to the NFL (and even college football) the guys aren't doing anything special....the caliber of athelete is different, the playing field is smaller, the rules are different, etc. You watch arena football and see the QB throwing the entire field.....big whoop, the field is like 40 yards long and 20 yards wide!

You get to pro bowling and all you see are the head to head matchups on TV. You have an exempt field. People don't care that somebody can bowl 3 games in the 200 range. Bring back the 4 or 5 days of tournaments and show these guys bowling 60+ games a week and still averaging 220+. Even then you still have guys with no personality and average physique. Just like you have guys on here thinking they are good enough to go pro if only they "had the right opportunity given to me."

People watch pros because they are doing something that we can't.
--------------------
Haywood

**************************
I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
**************************

qstick777 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 10, 2006, 04:41:29 PM »

quote:
I don't believe the trick shots is the answer(ratings went down the second season)....viewers had seen that ONCE!

Along the lines of the USBC bowlers challenge...have you paid attention to what has happened with the formerly staid Woman's pool. Low cuts bending over a pool table which started with Jenny Lee turned the ratings upside down on the men! Skyrocketing viewership.

Maybe we could get Jenny Lee and Ewa Lawrence to compete against sizzlers Clara Guerraro, Sara Vargas...(columbian hotty also), Diandra Ashbaty in a joint pool bowling match!

If you want to take a similar choice for the men...it would start with Brian Voss and Pete Weber(showmanship)...

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS...I actually view where this is going...Woman's bowling back up! Men's bowling continued downward sliding ratings and profits(imagine a table tipping downward)!
Pete Weber(every week),
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Yes, I agree with the pool comparison. I remember the days well, mainly because I was really into pool at the time.....I couldn't get enough of pool on TV, buying books, entering tournaments, going to tournaments, etc. And yes, same deal with bowling. The broadcasts were very boring to somebody that wasn't into pool.

For me (and my group of pool playing pals) the shows were okay, but not informative enough.....we wanted more info on the complexity of the shots - how to play the shot and leave the next shot, thinking 2 or 3 shots ahead, etc. But to the average viewer that stuff would be boring.

Why? maybe the same reason as bowling.....people can go out with their friends and play pool and manage to pocket a few balls in a row. Still, running a rack is a difficult feat, but you would expect a professional to do it with ease.

Now, add some nice looking women and some cleavage and suddenly guys have no problem watching that!

But, you also saw the popularity die down as soon as Karen Corr started to dominate and Jeanette Lee started to fail to make the show!

So, what do we learn from that? That as soon as the "talent" starts to elevate, and the "looks" go down, so does the viewership. Now, if you can manage to guarantee that your talent will always be "easy on the eyes" or "exciting," then maybe you have something.

Problem is with pool and bowling you can't guarantee that, and even if you do, people will quickly tire of see the same people over and over.

I'm sure a lot of people find Pete Weber entertaining, but imagine see him every week.....at least for me he starts to get old, quick.

If you haven't seen League of Ordinary Gentlemen, I highly recommend it. The guy that bought was really into PDW and his entertainment value......now, how many times did PDW make "the show" last year?
--------------------
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LuckyLefty · « **Reply #28 on:** October 10, 2006, 04:50:43 PM »

Don't ask Karen Cor if she is hurting ratings!

Just like the USBC challenge Unfortunately some great bowlers were not invited!

Sad...but true!

Hey I don't want to say it...and I won't...but anyone see a bowling show this year that almost got bowling kicked off TV forever! Maybe one of the most boring TV sports shows ever!?

If anyone ever wanted to have a course in what not to DO for TV ratings...this was it!

REgards,

LUckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Pinbuster · « **Reply #29 on:** October 10, 2006, 05:02:06 PM »

Do you want sport or a show like wrestling?

If you want to hand pick contestants based largely on looks then it is no longer a competition.

You make the womenâ€™s show out to be a big deal. But for a single $25,000 top prize they got 5 weeks of shows, 5 weeks! Itâ€™s better than what they have now but it is a pretty small pool of talent collecting the money. You spread that money around equally among the players and no one makes much of a living over a year.

Golf was already big it just got a lot bigger because of Tiger. I donâ€™t really think it had much to do with being black but that he had charisma and was a lot better than anyone else out there.

But in reality not that many people watch golf but people with a lot of money do so companies that want to advertise to high income clientele sponsor it and are willing to pay for it. Plus they can get 200,000+ spectators thru the gates.

The demographics for bowling are bad.

Bowling had a dominate figure in the 1990â€™s almost as dominate as Tiger was and that was Walter Ray and he had a strong lefty against him in Parker Bohn but the tour still went bankrupt. No one including the media took notice.

Tennis is in the same cycle. They just are not as hamstrung with gate receipts as the PBA is.

qstick777 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 10, 2006, 05:09:58 PM »

Well, that's the problem with sports/games like bowling and billiards. You have tournaments that are open to anybody, and sometimes the best talent isn't that great to look at or hang out with.

We have to realize that the PBA isn't like WWE or UFC. They don't choose their talent based on looks or charisma. Sure the PBA has the exemptions, but that is based on skill.

Would anybody suggest they go through and pick out 24-32 of the best looking, most charismatic people and let them bowl it out every week? Start some types of fueds or challenges?

Realistically that might be the best as far as ratings go. They only have 21 tournaments, so they could pull it off.

I can imagine it now:
"Sorry Walter Ray, but you can't bowl this year. You really need to work on your personality. Your bowling is great, but the public doesn't really seem to be into you right now."

"Sorry Scroggins, you just don't have the right look."

"Hey Danny, break out the flame shirts, you're on this week. Oh, would you mind trimming up the sideburns a little? Maybe throw in a little design this week?"

"Hey Norm, could you play up the quiet shy bit a little more?"
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Author Topic: Can anyone save Pro Bowling? (Read 7170 times)

Bjaardker

Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

SKIDSNAP

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

DonSVO

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

Fluff E Bunnie

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

RealBowler

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

Fluff E Bunnie

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

RealBowler

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

LuckyLefty

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

Rileybowler

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

qstick777

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

LuckyLefty

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

RealBowler

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

qstick777

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

LuckyLefty

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

Pinbuster

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?

qstick777

Re: Can anyone save Pro Bowling?