Post by: Bjaardker on October 10, 2006, 04:08:15 AM
I think that saving pro bowing all hinges on the USBC revolutionizing the sport itself & getting people to come back to bowling.
There's no mystique to bowling anymore. When you watch Tiger nail a chip shot from 180 yds out & hit it within 2 ft of the hole, you're in awe. But almost any jackhole can throw the front 5 or 6 now days. It's not magical. If they brought back the sport to bowling, gave people reasons to compete again, then people would watch it on TV.
Why do so many people watch golf? Because so many people are golfing as a sport. People wont watch bowling on TV anymore, because they can't relate to it. Now I know what you're thinking, tens of millions of people bowl every year. However, there's a huge difference between some people going out & bowling for a fun evening, and Bob & the guys getting together on a tuesday morning to hit the links. People are no longer bowling as a sport, it's become just a game, and that's not changing any time soon thanks to an incompetant USBC. It's no coincedence that around the same time ABC dropped the PBA, leagues were folding all over the country & memberships to the ABC & the WIBC were in decline.
IMHO It's going to take a network TV contract to save the pro bowling tours. Without the revenue from such a contract, I don't see the PBA lasting much longer, let alone the PWBA coming back. Only problem is, unless you're producing a product people want to watch, and are excited about, the networks wont be interested. I think this starts with the USBC.
Post by: cgilyeat on October 10, 2006, 12:16:21 PM
)but first the USBC has to save itself and the rest of bowling. I seriously doubt that they are capable of doing that much less capable of saving pro bowling.
Post by: Djarum on October 10, 2006, 12:24:12 PM
Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: splendorlex on October 10, 2006, 12:46:03 PM
But also, what Bones says is right. I like to watch bowling because I love the sport, and love to see guys/gals who KNOW what they are doing. To the average Joe, or even to the average bowler, it looks like every shot is pretty much the same. Where's the excitement? There is none, and never will be. Now, if the women were to bowl in BIKINIS, you might see some national interest!
--------------------
I'm not a bowler, but I do play one on Ballreviews.
If you don't like Wrigley, you might as well leave the country and join the Taliban.
Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Selliger of the Southern Cal bowling league. I just got a report that a member of your team, Walter Solcheck, drew a firearm during league play. If this is true, it controveens a number of league bylaws.
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 10, 2006, 12:52:24 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS excite and entertain...low scoring is out in selling to the public.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: sheppy335 on October 10, 2006, 01:23:59 PM
--------------------
Oil is served Best with fingers!
Why does the 8 Pin laugh at me!
Sheppy
Post by: Pinbuster on October 10, 2006, 01:26:16 PM
As general sanctioned bowling declined interest in pro bowling declined.
The original model failed and both tours closed doors.
The new PBA model is failing its original vision. Despite bringing in new marketing blood as sanctioned bowling continues to decline so does the PBA. Sponsor don’t see the return for their dollar so they are not signing up.
Evidence of this is the reduced prize funds this year.
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 10, 2006, 01:28:16 PM
"Lady in RED....(like a song)" (http://"http://bowl.com/articleView.aspx?i=12260&f=1")
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: DonSVO on October 10, 2006, 01:32:05 PM
we cater to mediocrity in the bowling world... easy scoring shots make bad bowlers look better. your average joe blow bowler shoots 220 on a low-volume top hat and has no clue what a flat shot is.
--------------------
Brunswick and Lane #1... there is no other.
Post by: Bjaardker on October 10, 2006, 01:51:55 PM
Bowling didn't used to be a 3rd tier sport. It was revered with large purses & major television contracts....then people stopped watching, right around the same time they stopped playing.
To give you an idea of this... ask people who Earl Anthony is. A good portion of the people you ask will know the name, and a good portion of that group will be able to tell you he's a bowler. Now ask them about Walter Ray Williams Jr.....Willing to guess what that percentage will be?
That's all extraneous to the point of my post which is that Bowling is no longer a sport, so people don't consider watching it on TV.
I've often suggested that they add a UV component to the oil so the cameras can show the oil pattern in real time but it's still invisible to the players. Also in leagues or open play they should add a dye to the oil so people see what they are playing on & can compare it to that which the pros play.
Also, there is still excitement in this game. Last night my wife was watching the USBC women with me & commented how exciting the last match was with it coming right down to the end. Besides....how much excitement is there in golf other than the occasional nice shot? Not much. then look at Arena Football. That game is nonstop excitement, but people don't watch it much. There has to be another X-factor to the viewership equation other than excitement.
Post by: DON DRAPER on October 10, 2006, 02:05:23 PM
Post by: EL on October 10, 2006, 02:12:03 PM
Post by: EL on October 10, 2006, 02:17:14 PM
Post by: se7en on October 10, 2006, 02:27:20 PM
Sadly, even though they were joking, I think the guy had a good point. The best way was to market the Army as hip, or cool (and may have likened it to Grand Theft Auto - Vice City).
The problem with bowling is that is has never been marketed as anything but a Sunday church cornfest. 'As American as apple pie!' the USBC commercial states. They are marketing bowling as goody-goody, so it will never be anywhere close to other sports when it comes to reaching out to a majority of youth.
At least the Women's Challenge stepped it up a notch. I think they need to reimage bowling with a cool-factor, not the apple pie approach.
--------------------
Elite P43 - 16#
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb - 15#
Track Machine 15#
Post by: Floridarevmachine on October 10, 2006, 02:50:00 PM
--------------------
mmmmmmmmmm Beer
Post by: SKIDSNAP on October 10, 2006, 02:57:32 PM
Lost their consistent time slot. Lost their format. Players lost their incentives.
Lost the chance that new faces can make a show versus the same dull boring ugly people week after week
Pro bowling does not sell bowling balls as in the past so manufacturers have no interest in helping support the events.
I am still trying to formulate a solution. Right now I am still stuck in evaluating what is going wrong versus what could go right.
The only advantage I see so far is that the most consistant bowling watching demographic men and women 55+ aren't dying off nearly as fast as they used to but they need to find a way to bring younger viewers to the table.
Post by: DonSVO on October 10, 2006, 02:59:12 PM
If kelly klulick breaks it off in a few guy's asses on TV, we're gonna see a shift. Hopefully, we can find a way to get that smoking hot Diandra Asbaty on TV! I am afraid to say I would be VERY interested in watching her uhhhh, form.
--------------------
Brunswick and Lane #1... there is no other.
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on October 10, 2006, 03:05:06 PM
quote:
Tiger broke from the mold... old white guys swinging wooden clubs and sporting more plaid than a quilter's convention. We need that. He was young, attractive, black and had a HUGE aura. He is extremely personable and fun to watch!
If kelly klulick breaks it off in a few guy's asses on TV, we're gonna see a shift. Hopefully, we can find a way to get that smoking hot Diandra Asbaty on TV! I am afraid to say I would be VERY interested in watching her uhhhh, form.
--------------------
Brunswick and Lane #1... there is no other.
Bowling has already updated its image though. This whole thing is so funny to me. I think it's silly that you need a specific sex or race winning to get ratings. Stupid stuff.
--------------------
I mean what's next, WRW in a Codpiece if the mens tour suffers? - Nodsleinad
Post by: RealBowler on October 10, 2006, 03:06:20 PM
quote:
At least the Women's Challenge stepped it up a notch. I think they need to reimage bowling with a cool-factor, not the apple pie approach.
You plan on doing that with Patrick Allen, Mike Scroggins, Tommy Jones, and Walter Ray?
Good luck with that.
Maybe with Brian Voss, PDW, and Danny Wiseman. Sorry, but most of those guys look like schmoes and have no personality.
That's what happens when you try to turn a game into a sport.
Let's all just face it, bowling isn't a sport. It's going to be regulated to the same status as Darts, Billiards, and the National Spelling Bee.
Add to that the fact that the insist on trying to go head-to-head with the NFL on Sunday and you are just setting yourself up for failure!
If you are going to market bowling as a family sport, you do not decide to air bowling on the one day that families are most likely to get together to bowl! And you do not decide to air it on the same day (and time) that the majority of bowlers are going to be home watching football or NASCAR!
How many more people do you think would be likely to watch if it was shown on a weeknight? They would have more time to edit the shows and make them more interesting. They could cut interviews into the games and make the bowlers more interesting, a la the WPT or WSOP broadcasts.
I agree with the idea of the UV in the oil to help demonstrate the conditions. Randy has tried to do better at explaining the patterns and how they breakdown, but non-bowlers (and even recreational bowlers) aren't very likely to understand. Similar to poker, a lot of "regular people" don't understand the odds that they show for each of the hands. Same with golf, unless you can get some sort of computer aided graphic to show the undulation of the green, most people don't care that the green plays "a little high and to the left." Joe Schmoe doesn't give a darn about the breakpoint unless he knows what it means!
--------------------
Haywood
**************************
I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
**************************
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on October 10, 2006, 03:11:26 PM
--------------------
I mean what's next, WRW in a Codpiece if the mens tour suffers? - Nodsleinad
Post by: RealBowler on October 10, 2006, 03:21:33 PM
quote:
FYI - Bowling in a mall is not cool. Nice try though, but it made no sense. Unless you were going with the stereotype that women love malls or something.
Well, yeah, all women love malls because all women love to shop.
And, all women love to get their hair done and have make-overs!
New clothes, make-up, new "do," and go bowling.......it all goes hand in hand!
--------------------
Haywood
**************************
I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
**************************
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 10, 2006, 03:35:15 PM
These guys who produced the ladies shoes should take over production of the PBA!
They KNOW what they are doing!
Killer Bs...!!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Rileybowler on October 10, 2006, 03:50:11 PM
--------------------
Carl
Post by: qstick777 on October 10, 2006, 03:50:16 PM
quote:
All showman...from PT Barnum and before know...that "Educating" doesn't lead to sales or viewers...Excitement does!
These guys who produced the ladies shoes should take over production of the PBA!
They KNOW what they are doing!
Killer Bs...!!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Perhaps they should just produce an entire season of the trick shots/challenge series and have a short 10-15 minute recap of the tournaments?
Not saying that would make it better, but my wife didn't have a problem sitting down and watching the challenge.....the one they showed at the end of the season (after they edited everything together). Now, getting her to sit down and watch the actual tournaments is a totally different story!
--------------------
Best post ever:http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5
Search Ballreviews entire database here: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 10, 2006, 04:21:36 PM
Along the lines of the USBC bowlers challenge...have you paid attention to what has happened with the formerly staid Woman's pool. Low cuts bending over a pool table which started with Jenny Lee turned the ratings upside down on the men! Skyrocketing viewership.
Maybe we could get Jenny Lee and Ewa Lawrence to compete against sizzlers Clara Guerraro, Sara Vargas...(columbian hotty also), Diandra Ashbaty in a joint pool bowling match!
If you want to take a similar choice for the men...it would start with Brian Voss and Pete Weber(showmanship)...
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS...I actually view where this is going...Woman's bowling back up! Men's bowling continued downward sliding ratings and profits(imagine a table tipping downward)!
Pete Weber(every week),
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: RealBowler on October 10, 2006, 04:28:27 PM
quote:
I think Bowling can do a little better than Darts and Billiards. Bowling is suffering right now. The women have the right idea. The fact that they are Bowling in a Mall with all the distractions, etc is saying something. They are not just Bowling in a Boring Alley. We knew that the PBA would not continue to be able to have the purses they had.
As for people not Bowling. Well here where I live, people carry 230 averages and are basically afraid to step up on a Sport condition or the PBA. They like wowing everyone with their bloated averages. I Personally Love Bowling. I have not heard anyone else say that. I Bowl 3 nights a week and love it. I have a Online Shop and a Pro Shop. My life is Bowling. It can and will get better. Remember ABC ruined the sport. USBC is only just beginning. I agree with the fact that Bowling for the PBA and PWBA needs MAJOR sponsors. We need a Nike, or someone. Not Denny's. As for the scoring in Bowling, I am having a hard time understanding why everyone does not want to see high scores. They might be a little fake but like someone said about Baseball. Noone wants to watch a low scoring game. Same with Bowling. Don't you feel bad when someone Bowls a 100 game? Wouldn't you rather them enjoy themselves and be proud of their score? Bowling is FUN. I want to see High scores. If they are getting them because of the Ball, who cares? Tiger Woods can not hit a Ball as far as He does with the old kind of Golf Club. He has state of the art equipment that I am sure makes him look better. So stop ragging Bowling. Make it better. Get people to join. Watch the telecasts instead of Football. BOWLING IS GREAT!!!!!!!
I don't think anybody has a problem with high scoring. I think the problem is that Joe Schmoe doesn't realize that the pro's are bowling on completely different conditions than what they get during cosmic bowling.
Any schmuck can take a house ball and throw it down there and get a couple of strikes. Why do they want to watch the pros get out there and shoot 190's games? Go out one night and watch the cosmic bowlers and check out their scores.....it's not unrealistic to see some college kid get close to 200, no thumbing it while drinking beers with his buddies.
Now, compare that to somebody trying to kick a 40 yard field goal, hit a 300+ yard driver off the tee, drain a couple of 3 pointers with somebody in your face, hit a 90+ mph fast ball for a homerun. People have to "get" that the pros are doing something special.
Other than the poker phenomenon, which I don't understand why people want to sit down and watch people play poker.....blackjack on TV hasn't taken off as much, so it must be the production on the show, because it ain't all that exciting!
People watch pro sports because they understand that the pros are doing something special. Same thing with Arena football and the XFL....compared to the NFL (and even college football) the guys aren't doing anything special....the caliber of athelete is different, the playing field is smaller, the rules are different, etc. You watch arena football and see the QB throwing the entire field.....big whoop, the field is like 40 yards long and 20 yards wide!
You get to pro bowling and all you see are the head to head matchups on TV. You have an exempt field. People don't care that somebody can bowl 3 games in the 200 range. Bring back the 4 or 5 days of tournaments and show these guys bowling 60+ games a week and still averaging 220+. Even then you still have guys with no personality and average physique. Just like you have guys on here thinking they are good enough to go pro if only they "had the right opportunity given to me."
People watch pros because they are doing something that we can't.
--------------------
Haywood
**************************
I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
**************************
Post by: qstick777 on October 10, 2006, 04:41:29 PM
quote:
I don't believe the trick shots is the answer(ratings went down the second season)....viewers had seen that ONCE!
Along the lines of the USBC bowlers challenge...have you paid attention to what has happened with the formerly staid Woman's pool. Low cuts bending over a pool table which started with Jenny Lee turned the ratings upside down on the men! Skyrocketing viewership.
Maybe we could get Jenny Lee and Ewa Lawrence to compete against sizzlers Clara Guerraro, Sara Vargas...(columbian hotty also), Diandra Ashbaty in a joint pool bowling match!
If you want to take a similar choice for the men...it would start with Brian Voss and Pete Weber(showmanship)...
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS...I actually view where this is going...Woman's bowling back up! Men's bowling continued downward sliding ratings and profits(imagine a table tipping downward)!
Pete Weber(every week),
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Yes, I agree with the pool comparison. I remember the days well, mainly because I was really into pool at the time.....I couldn't get enough of pool on TV, buying books, entering tournaments, going to tournaments, etc. And yes, same deal with bowling. The broadcasts were very boring to somebody that wasn't into pool.
For me (and my group of pool playing pals) the shows were okay, but not informative enough.....we wanted more info on the complexity of the shots - how to play the shot and leave the next shot, thinking 2 or 3 shots ahead, etc. But to the average viewer that stuff would be boring.
Why? maybe the same reason as bowling.....people can go out with their friends and play pool and manage to pocket a few balls in a row. Still, running a rack is a difficult feat, but you would expect a professional to do it with ease.
Now, add some nice looking women and some cleavage and suddenly guys have no problem watching that!
But, you also saw the popularity die down as soon as Karen Corr started to dominate and Jeanette Lee started to fail to make the show!
So, what do we learn from that? That as soon as the "talent" starts to elevate, and the "looks" go down, so does the viewership. Now, if you can manage to guarantee that your talent will always be "easy on the eyes" or "exciting," then maybe you have something.
Problem is with pool and bowling you can't guarantee that, and even if you do, people will quickly tire of see the same people over and over.
I'm sure a lot of people find Pete Weber entertaining, but imagine see him every week.....at least for me he starts to get old, quick.
If you haven't seen League of Ordinary Gentlemen, I highly recommend it. The guy that bought was really into PDW and his entertainment value......now, how many times did PDW make "the show" last year?
--------------------
Best post ever:http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5
Search Ballreviews entire database here: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 10, 2006, 04:50:43 PM
Just like the USBC challenge Unfortunately some great bowlers were not invited!
Sad...but true!
Hey I don't want to say it...and I won't...but anyone see a bowling show this year that almost got bowling kicked off TV forever! Maybe one of the most boring TV sports shows ever!?
If anyone ever wanted to have a course in what not to DO for TV ratings...this was it!
REgards,
LUckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Pinbuster on October 10, 2006, 05:02:06 PM
If you want to hand pick contestants based largely on looks then it is no longer a competition.
You make the women’s show out to be a big deal. But for a single $25,000 top prize they got 5 weeks of shows, 5 weeks! It’s better than what they have now but it is a pretty small pool of talent collecting the money. You spread that money around equally among the players and no one makes much of a living over a year.
Golf was already big it just got a lot bigger because of Tiger. I don’t really think it had much to do with being black but that he had charisma and was a lot better than anyone else out there.
But in reality not that many people watch golf but people with a lot of money do so companies that want to advertise to high income clientele sponsor it and are willing to pay for it. Plus they can get 200,000+ spectators thru the gates.
The demographics for bowling are bad.
Bowling had a dominate figure in the 1990’s almost as dominate as Tiger was and that was Walter Ray and he had a strong lefty against him in Parker Bohn but the tour still went bankrupt. No one including the media took notice.
Tennis is in the same cycle. They just are not as hamstrung with gate receipts as the PBA is.
Post by: qstick777 on October 10, 2006, 05:09:58 PM
We have to realize that the PBA isn't like WWE or UFC. They don't choose their talent based on looks or charisma. Sure the PBA has the exemptions, but that is based on skill.
Would anybody suggest they go through and pick out 24-32 of the best looking, most charismatic people and let them bowl it out every week? Start some types of fueds or challenges?
Realistically that might be the best as far as ratings go. They only have 21 tournaments, so they could pull it off.
I can imagine it now:
"Sorry Walter Ray, but you can't bowl this year. You really need to work on your personality. Your bowling is great, but the public doesn't really seem to be into you right now."
"Sorry Scroggins, you just don't have the right look."
"Hey Danny, break out the flame shirts, you're on this week. Oh, would you mind trimming up the sideburns a little? Maybe throw in a little design this week?"
"Hey Norm, could you play up the quiet shy bit a little more?"
--------------------
Best post ever:http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5
Search Ballreviews entire database here: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Post by: DP3 on October 10, 2006, 05:38:39 PM
The UFC, while being around for about a decade, is in a powerful resurgence due to it's ability through television to make their characters personable and establishing credibility. The same with poker. Millions of millions play poker everyday and make quite good money, but even the skilled amatuer doesn't want to sit down across the table starting down Johnny Chan or Phil Ferguson with a ton of money on the line because they know that they'd stand no chance.
Bowling has always had the trouble of making the athletes into "characters". We see Walter Ray and Norm Duke on the show for the majority of the season, but how much do we really know about them? The more you can relate to a persons plight, the more interesting the game becomes.
The PBA has also had the problem of separating the Pro from the Amatuer in skill level. Sure you can spit out technical jargon all day and tell the people at home that they would only average 175-185 on tour while a pro would average 225-230, but that still remains to be tested and seen. The average bowler doesn't understand much of the technical side of their house condition, much less separate what they bowl on from what the pros bowl on and how the pros transition lanes much differently than the house player. For one, as much as we don't want to admit it, I think higher scores will lead to more viewers and help to create a larger than life figure for the guy at home to look up to. Look how excited we were the first show of the season when Tommy Jones was firing on all cylinders and almost shot 300 the first show of the year. Then look at how disgusted we were on the grindouts that had Scroggins making shows every week. We all are fascinated by physical prowess and scoring to a certain extent.
I think for TV, maybe they should experiment with softening them up a bit just to test the waters of bringing in more viewers. Maybe PBA would garnish more sportscenter time if there was more 300-279, 279-268 final matches, instead of 219-180 final matches. The people that we need viewing and participating the most are the ones that are going to be fascinated by scoring and top notch physical execution. Some of us are already set in the mold of "getting bored by striking", but what about that larger percentage that's "getting bored of sparing". There are plenty of guys, and I hear it all the time throughout the center that will say "Did you see (...bowler...) shoot that 175 on Sunday? Hell, I shot 740 last week". But then whenever someone shoots numbers on TV they are talked about in a larger than life manner.
Excitement, scoring, and presentation are the only things that will bring people back to the TV.
--------------------
- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 10, 2006, 05:57:02 PM
And yes...Walter Ray...you are NOT on this weeks SHOW! (note I am a big fan of deadeyes game too)
Maybe would wake them ALL up! Until you do....X! Walter Knows what X is...and he would do it...if he really believed tour was going away and his income with it!....(pssst...I believe it is...in less than two years!)
The Men's game is on a virtual cliff ready to fall off!
The Woman's game already did...and now they learned a little something about promotion over the last several weeks! I'm sure their ratings were very good(for bowling).
PICK the fields as above! Perfect....just like they did for the woman's challenge AND there are hardly a guy out there who could use a little sprucin up except for Voss and Pete Weber, Robert Smith, Chris Johnson, Jason Couch, ...our own Jeff Carter and...well a few others.
Others (just like in the USBC woman's challenge) could be included who are just great. Patrick Allen is exciting with his game and fire!
If you want to know what doesn't work...there was a bowling show I call..."the worst sports show ever" this year on TV. IF you saw it...you know what it was!
IT is the antithesis of the USBC Woman's challenge we just saw!
For the rest...get ready for someone to say...get a haircut, press your pants, get a wig....show some fire!!!whatever....it takes!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS 1) as a required class...every tour member(both genders) must watch match of Clara Guerraro with Carolyn Dorin Ballard, and Clara and CAra Honeychurch.
2}Also required viewing Shannon Pluhowsky in her losing effort of the previous weeks(likeable future superstar). 3) a Jason Couch pre match interview! 4)And finally ALL should watch the show I referenced above and note it..."as the show...never to be seen again!"
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: pin-chaser on October 10, 2006, 06:09:34 PM
It is hard to intice a family to support there child in bowling when the best they can do is to get a job that guarentees $32k (on the pro tour). As well, its hard to invest large sums of money in yourself to become better when the amatuer level is so strong. As well, its hard for TV to support (again money) the PBA when it is a declining sport which translates directly to a decrease in the pool of potential watchers.
Suffice it to say, that if the pro's were earning $100k as a minimum and there was 200 pro's there would be more interest by everyone all the way down. There must be a multi-phased attack to resolve bowlings decline which has been going on for a couple decades now. But until the bowling community finally realizes that it is not going to happen until the bowling community takes control of the situation itself. By this I mean all bowlers should pay an extra few dollars for there yearly dues (USBC) and all proprietors should pay extra, and all manufactures should pay a few dollars for there goods. With this money ($10-20M yearly) we could assist the funding of PBA, WPBA, investigate how to restore integrity, do surveys into why we are really suffering the attrition, work with proprietors to build back there leagues.... ie... help ourselves to make the changes needed. What we are doing is sitting back and waiting for some else to solve this problem. Its a small investment from everyone that can provide the money that we need to turn this around.
In keeping this post short, I will leave it here. But there are other things that could be done if we were able to.
--------------------
Bowling Tips and Articles at: www.bowlingknowledge.com
IRC: Internet Relay Chat on Dalnet #striketalk. 24x7x365
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on October 11, 2006, 08:33:14 AM
You don't need Bowling Tiger Woods or a bikini to do it either.
Personally, I wish they would show some of the stuff leading up to the final people bowling in match play. Like maybe something like WRW was talking about... Kind of do it like golf where you cut from one game to the next when there is something interesting to show.
That way, people can see more bowlers than the few that end up on TV at the end.
--------------------
I mean what's next, WRW in a Codpiece if the mens tour suffers? - Nodsleinad
Post by: SirAshley on October 11, 2006, 09:10:35 AM
--------------------
To be Politically Correct in this society I feel we should change the term "House Hack" to "One House Wonder". It will make alot of losers feel much better about themselves!!!
Post by: RealBowler on October 11, 2006, 10:07:33 AM
quote:
Okay here is the question that needs to be solved in order to save professional bowling. How do you get people to watch, who are not bowlers? You and I watch because we like to watch their form, their shot, their swing...etc... If you have no desire to see that, then bowling is just flat out boring. IMO, in order to get people to watch, who don't bowl, there has to be a reason to keep them coming back. So how do you do this? Well someone mentioned character developement, that is a good place to start. We need good guys and villians, we need drama, we need trash talking (something more than just Pete Weber, PLEASE!), and most importantly, we need reality that people can relate to. If you get all of those things, people who have never bowled in their lives will have someone to root for and a reason to watch again. The PBA needs a vested interest to keep people watching each week, without this, there is no place to go but down. It has nothing to do with the integrity of the sport; it has everything to do with the fact that people have more choices of things to watch that are simply more entertaining. Make bowling entertaining and more people will watch. How do you do that? Well, as I stated above, you're going to have to do more than just bowl.
--------------------
Does anybody know the ratings for when ESPN had the pro athletes bowling? That seemed like it was more entertaining and might have appealed to more of the general public.
Heck, if people get so excited about watching celebrities trying to dance I think people will watch just about anything.
--------------------
Haywood
**************************
I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
**************************
Post by: Jeff Carter on October 11, 2006, 10:41:25 AM
The answer starts with all entities of the industry working together to revamp the sport. Its all going to have to start with coaching. Coaching youth bowlers has to become more than having volunteers on saturday mornings to "babysit" youth bowlers. The youth bowlers are the future ballreviews.com posters. They need educated, just like every other sport.
Next step would be for the USBC to set up a mulitple-tier membership program, based on playing conditions. This would be totally up to the members as to what tier their league would be in, but then it would be recognized accordingly. I would suggest having a recreational level ( with conditions similar to the way they are now ). Within this level, honor scores would be recognized with certificates, etc...but would be considered recreational honor scores. The next level would be a competitive level ( with conditions somewhere inbetween todays league conditions and the sport level...maybe 5 or 6:1 ratios ). Within this level, honor scores would be recognized with the current awards or rings, watches, etc...The next level would include the sport bowling system ( with condtions around 3 or 4:1 ratios - not 2:1 like todays system ). The level would allow honor score members to recognized nationally with substantial awards. The USBC could tag these levels as bronze, silver and gold and market them accordingly. The dues could be structured so that the bronze members pay less in yearly dues than the gold members, but also receive much fewer benefits. This would allow people to have a choice on what level they want to bowl on, plus it would be much easier to explain the difference in lane conditions from level to level. When people see the gold, silver and bronze levels they will know exactly where they fit in. After that you would have the Professional level as the highest tier in the membership. One other idea that has come up a lot lately is that the USBC should put $2.00 ( or so ) from every membership card sold into the PBA / PWBA to help sponsor the tours and keep the highest level in bowling alive and prospering.
This will take a collective effort from everybody, from the PBA owners to USBC officials to bowling center proprietors to coaches to the bowlers. Everybody needs to get involved in making the sport grow.
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: shelley on October 11, 2006, 12:48:00 PM
quote:
Next step would be for the USBC to set up a mulitple-tier membership program, based on playing conditions.
I think that's a great idea for many of the reasons you give. There are tangible, understandable differences and benefits for going up or down levels.
However, it suffers precisely the same lane condition regulation that Sport bowling does. We had a Sport league a few years ago here and it was a pain in the butt to pull tapes every frickin' week. I understand wanting to be able to verify that the condition really was harder when handing out the accolades. But it's a catch-22: Lessen the lane inspection requirements to make compliance easier and you run the risk of centers being dishonest when it comes to conditions. I've read here that some houses probably don't comply with the 3-unit rule. The house states that leagues bowl on a silver-level condition while putting down a bronze or recreational condition for normal league play.
Alternatively, keep the Sport rules in place, requiring tapes every week to verify conditions. It's a big cost and a big hassle (hassle here, maybe not other places, but I'd it's a hassle in most).
I'd hope that houses wouldn't be so dishonest as to do something like that. Given that there would be several levels to choose from, if they wanted to put down an easier shot, just advertise as bronze-level. No harm, no foul. Make the inspection rules stricter as you move up the scale. Every 60 days for bronze, once a month for silver, and weekly for gold.
SH
Post by: justdale on October 11, 2006, 01:03:07 PM
Well 1st thing is to make it a little more acceptable to everyone, sure keep the minimum requirements out there, but I got to tell you, it is dishearting to see the same people on TV week after week. What ever happened to opening up spots for rabbit squads for the local bowlers.
Getting some new faces on TV can't hurt. Knock the prize funds down, and pay more spots. Some of the Professionals are making money on top of just bowling, you look at how many of them have a paycheck regardless on how they perform.
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on October 11, 2006, 01:09:46 PM
One person's cool is another's lame.
--------------------
I mean what's next, WRW in a Codpiece if the mens tour suffers? - Nodsleinad
Post by: Jeff Carter on October 11, 2006, 01:53:00 PM
Fireguy - The conditions on the show have gotten softer over the years and scores have gone up. You cant run a different pattern for the show that you used all week, that would be more unethical than whats going on in bowling now. In professional bowling scores are relative. It doesnt matter what the score is, it only matters who scores the highest ! As far as the comment about bowlers not looking like athletes, we only have a handful of guys that would be considered "out of shape". Take a look at somebody like David Wells, CC Sabathia, Bartolo Colon, Matt Stairs, etc....How about 99 % of all the offensive linemen in the NFL. My point is that you are talking about less than 10% of the Tour in your comment. The image problem isnt nearly as big as you make it out to be. The problem lies in peoples perception of bowlers in general
Shelly - i agree that there are some logistical hoops to jump through in my ideas, but the sport is so far down that somebody needs to "re-invest" in the sport and do whatever it takes to bring it back to life. If this means that local associations need to do more lane inspections, then so be it. This could only help the integrity issues, as well as when the Olympic questions arise again.
Justdale - I totally disagree with you here. The restrictions for being a PBA member have to be stricter. The reason that the requirements are so low right now is the fact that the PBA is relying on membership dues from over 4000 members to help "foot the bill". If the sport was stronger, they wouldnt have to rely on that money as much and they could make being a PBA member mean something again. As far as getting fresh faces on tv, you are already seeing that now and hopefully that will be a trend that continues this season. You are somewhat offbase on the comment about players having a paycheck no matter how they perform. First of all, players arent paid nearly as much as you would think. There are a select few guys that have substantial contracts, and they have certainly earned those. For the most part guys get by on contracts that pretty much help cover expenses on tour. After that guys invest in Pro Shops or other business to help suppliment income, but that happens in every aspect of life. We may be guaranteed a check every week right now, but that money isnt as much as you would think after expenses. The fact is professional bowlers have to work twice as hard as athletes in just about every other sport for what we get.
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: Monster Stitch on October 11, 2006, 02:51:48 PM
the patterns used was really there. Patterns that were suppose to play inside did. When the new machine was used the last two seasons, shots that were suppose to play inside played out. Just not very true in my opinion. I think the PBA should go back to using Kegel instead.
Post by: Gazoo on October 11, 2006, 03:02:34 PM
Post by: qstick777 on October 11, 2006, 03:54:00 PM
I think you would have a number of leagues move towards sanctioning only with the local (and maybe state) association. A number of centers in my area also do their own awards programs (on top of the USBC awards).
I think there is definately a place for the different levels, but I think a majority of bowlers don't really care about things like that.
--------------------
Best post ever:http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5
Search Ballreviews entire database here: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Post by: Jeff Carter on October 11, 2006, 04:05:05 PM
As far as the Scroggs / Loschetter comment goes, i guess i dont really know how to answer that. I do know that a lot of guys are in good physical shape. Its tough to translate looks into image, because i guess you play the cards that you are dealt. It would be tough to tell somebody that they couldnt compete on tour because you arent good looking enough ( although Gary Beck did that with the Womens Challenge ). The best part about the sport of bowling is that anybody and everybody can do it, but it still takes a lot of hard work and tremendous talent to make it to the top.
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com