Author Topic: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend (Read 8396 times)

txbowler · « **on:** December 08, 2010, 01:23:49 AM »

A post I read in another forum stated the Virtual Gravity is one of the weakest backend balls ever, but yet is one of the most heavy oil hooking balls ever.

Most bowlers I know of, think they are one in the same so how can the above statement be true?

I'm confused?

Can some of the experts here enlighten me please?

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2010, 09:41:29 AM »

First off, I don't agree with the statement about the VG, but be that as it may, I think I can explain it to you.
A ball only has the energy applied to it by the bowler. The coverstock, surface finish, interior construction and layout all function to determine where and when that energy is used, if at all.
A ball for heavy oil generally rolls early, using some of the energy to get the ball started in its hook phase earlier, leaving less for the backend. It may cover more total boards, but less on the back part.
A ball for lighter oil generally skids further, saving more energy until the back of the lane, resulting in a large backend movement.
A heavy oil ball used on a light oil condition will use all of its energy early and never hit hard.
A ball for light oil used on a heavy oil condition will never use its energy on the lane and just spin into the pit.
The trick is to get the combination right on a given lane condition.

Hope this simplistic explanation helps you.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2010, 09:41:42 AM »

Usually balls that start getting into a roll early, will tend to have more overall hook, but less backend movement, or more controllable. The VG was a ball that handled oil but really could only be used when playing more up the boards unless your rev rate was ungodly. The was not a "standing on 45, playing 22 out to 5 breakpoint" kind of ball. There are also balls that have booming backends but cover a lesser amount of boards from foul line to pin deck. That is why there is a misconception of more backend means more hook and that is not always the case.
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bwproshop · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2010, 09:44:19 AM »

The reason for this is that the earlier a ball begins hooking, the less backend it will have. The VG is a very early rolling ball for Storm, and as a result does not have a lot of "backend" hook.

As a ball begins to go from skid to roll, it begins to lose the energy that causes the change in direction. Therefore a ball that skids longer before beginning to roll, will have more backend because it will hold that energy longer. Example: Storm's VG has more overall hook than their Reign because the VG rolls earlier, but the Reign has a lot more hook on the backend than the VG because it skids further down lane before it begins to roll.
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JustRico · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2010, 09:29:22 PM »

A bowling ball is designed to do certain things, have certain inherent characteristics that incorporate the bowler''s attributes to create certain reactions.
A bowling ball has to slow down for it to be able to change direction. A bowling ball, to slow down has to traction on the lane. Surface generally is what dictates how quickly a bowling ball will slow down.
For a bowling ball to change driection, visually, a certain amount of force has to be applied to the bowling ball by the bowler. Generally this is done with proper leverage, proper wrist position and proper rotation.
Hook is defined as any deviation from a straight line...this can occur an 5ft to 55ft. Most bowler''s equate ''hook'' as the downlane motion that is seen when the bowling ball responds to back end friction. Most bowler''s do not realize that ''hook'' can oocur anywhere on the lane once it touches the lane. When a bowling ball ''hooks'' in the first 20ft or before the arrows, it is generally not seen or perceived by the bowler.
The Virtual Gravity was a great combination of overall reaction and strong down lane motion...thus it is still on the market after 3 years.
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Formerly BrunsRico

Edited on 12/8/2010 10:29 PM

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Edited on 12/8/2010 10:33 PM

strikeking · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2010, 01:06:38 PM »

Think of it as "over-all" hook and "back-end" hook. They are two different things.
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Strikeking

txbowler · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2010, 02:51:44 PM »

I must look at it differently than some. The point where my ball changes direction is where my "backend" begins.

The reason I asked this question in the first place was a teammate of mine was having problems in a double set travel league we bowl. In the second set his equipment would hook early in the track and go through the nose in the second set and his style is not condusive to getting deep and swinging the ball to get it down the lane. So the pro shop drilled up something with a mildly agressive coverstock and a 3 3/8 leverage drill to almost roll out. It burns up in the track of course but does not do much on the back end and still manages to carry. Thinking of doing something similar to a virtual gravity.

Edited on 12/9/2010 3:53 PM

shelley · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2010, 08:53:16 PM »

Early hook in the midlane, lots of roll. Characteristic of high-load particle balls like the Mammoth and Goliath.

SH

Rival · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2010, 08:38:28 AM »

quote:
I must look at it differently than some. The point where my ball changes direction is where my "backend" begins.

The reason I asked this question in the first place was a teammate of mine was having problems in a double set travel league we bowl. In the second set his equipment would hook early in the track and go through the nose in the second set and his style is not condusive to getting deep and swinging the ball to get it down the lane. So the pro shop drilled up something with a mildly agressive coverstock and a 3 3/8 leverage drill to almost roll out. It burns up in the track of course but does not do much on the back end and still manages to carry. Thinking of doing something similar to a virtual gravity.

Edited on 12/9/2010 3:53 PM

Ill be the first to tell you that I dont recommend doing this. I had a Virtual Gravity drilled 4 x 4 with a 2 inch pin buffer and when I first got it I was impressed by the big move it made... But I don't bowl in the house where my proshop was at the time. When I got back home, I could never find enough oil in the heads to get the ball to even start up. I didn't even really realize it until we had our county tournament and they LOADED the lanes with oil, and had super clean backends. I shot very well with this ball but I only encountered this type of shot like once a year.

I got a second Virtual Gravity from a friend, and decided to drill it much weaker. It was about a 6 1/2 by 5 3/4 with a 2 inch buffer. I found that on the conditions I encounter, this ball moved leaps and bounds more than the first VG. With the first VG I had trouble throwing up ten... The ball just struggled to make it back to the pocket, but with the second one, I could throw 20-10 and it would just roar back to the pocket.

I guess if you were to draw something from this rant, it would be this. Make sure your house has enough oil up front or this ball will move less than anything but your spareball with a stacked leverage drilling. For the record, this is by no means a negative post on the ball, even though I disliked the first VG, it performed very well when I got it on the right shot. This situation happened because of my lack of knowledge of my game at the time. Ive come to realize that with such a high pap and very little axis tilt, I need to drill most balls weaker to conserve energy and not roll out going down the lane.
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2010, 08:47:02 AM »

quote:
I must look at it differently than some. The point where my ball changes direction is where my "backend" begins.

But that's not a "good" point of view. The hook is determined by the amount and timing when/how much the core migrates towards its stable roll axis. What you consider a hook is just the obvious thing which happens if you play a polished ball through good head oil, and then encounters friction which makes it break/jump and hook.

But there's more to the hook phenomenon, e .g. friction with the lane surface, the drilling/core setup, and also the player's style.

Coming back to the initial question - you only have a certain amount of energy to spend through the hooking motion, and the core and its relative position to the PSA "helps" to define when and how much of this energy is spent. So, a strong mid lane read is also a "hook" - it just lets the ball roll earlier. It might cover the same amount of boards, compared to a flippier setup, but the reaction shape is much different, and potentially the ball's utility.

Core/cover characteristics also lay a certain reaction foundation. Particle balls offer very early mechanical traction, so their hook tends to be more arcing than reactives. A low or high RG also changes the reaction shape. Then add different surface preps and player styles... it is IMHO very hard to generalize.
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txbowler · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2010, 09:04:23 AM »

Thanks Dizzyfugu. Your explanation makes sense.

batbowler · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2010, 09:24:38 AM »

Remember the three phases the bowling ball goes through as it travels down the lane: Skid, Hook, and Roll!
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kidlost2000 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2010, 10:09:19 AM »

Sometimes a visual helps

(for reference, freehand)

It shows both covering the same number of boards. One that goes longer and snaps hard on the backend. The other has more overall arc with a smoother backend. It still hooks, will hook as much as anything it just does it sooner.

The go longer angular backend is what most people always consider a bigger hooking ball because of how many boards it covers in a short area down lane.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg252/soundcontrol/compare.jpg

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Edited on 12/10/2010 11:13 AM

txbowler · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2010, 02:26:44 PM »

OK, I understand the concept. Now, suppose as I said above, a bowler is encountering dryer conditions where his normal equipment would over-react and the bowler is not consistently capable of playing deep. So he had a ball intentionally drilled to burn up in the heads so that it was "rolling out" by the time it was getting to the back end. If not a virtual gravity, what type of ball would be appropriate and what is the correct drill for a higher rev lower ball speed (16 mph) player? I'm considering this same kind of approach to dryer conditions. or at least having it in my bag as an option.

River700 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2010, 04:42:42 PM »

quote:
OK, I understand the concept. Now, suppose as I said above, a bowler is encountering dryer conditions where his normal equipment would over-react and the bowler is not consistently capable of playing deep. So he had a ball intentionally drilled to burn up in the heads so that it was "rolling out" by the time it was getting to the back end. If not a virtual gravity, what type of ball would be appropriate and what is the correct drill for a higher rev lower ball speed (16 mph) player? I'm considering this same kind of approach to dryer conditions. or at least having it in my bag as an option.

I don't know if you have been to this site yet, but there is a wealth of information about layouts, but most importantly the dual angle layout method that describes what the different angles do and the difference between higher and lower angles. Plus, info about weight holes and locations.
http://forum.bowlingchat.net/
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/c/cd/DualAngle.pdf
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/c/c6/GradientLine.pdf
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Author Topic: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend (Read 8396 times)

txbowler

Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

Cobalt Bomb

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

TWOHAND834

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

bwproshop

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

JustRico

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

strikeking

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

txbowler

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

shelley

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

Rival

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

dizzyfugu

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

txbowler

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

batbowler

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

kidlost2000

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

txbowler

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend

River700

Re: Can Someone Explain Big Hook & Mild Backend