BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: stormerjip on August 18, 2004, 06:05:30 AM

Title: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: stormerjip on August 18, 2004, 06:05:30 AM

the title says most of it i want some details on this and how to judge how far u offset it

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Brickguy221 on August 18, 2004, 02:11:46 PM

I'm not really sure about this, but I think Bob Hanson might be able to help you with your question.

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Jeffrevs on August 18, 2004, 02:11:59 PM

are you talking about center line transfer ??

if so,...message LuckyLefty.....

If we had the CORRECT search criteria on this site, maybe we could do this ?!?!

But Lucky will help!
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Brickguy221 on August 18, 2004, 02:14:04 PM

Jeff, I "think" there is a difference between off-set thumb and CLT. I think Bob uses an off-set thumb, but not sure.

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income


Edited on 8/18/2004 2:08 PM

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: stormerjip on August 18, 2004, 02:25:41 PM

im not pos which one i want the one i am talking about is thumb left of center line  for a right

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Ragnar on August 18, 2004, 02:30:29 PM

There may be such a thing as a CLT drilling; I just don't know much about it.  But I am convinced that there is no such thing as an offset thumb.  Mind you, for years I drilled "offset" thumbs until it was pointed out to me that all I was really doing was lengthening the span on my ring finger and changing the relative pitches of the finger holes.
--------------------
"Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,"
I'm Ragnar Floggurass, and I approve this message

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Pinbuster on August 18, 2004, 02:35:24 PM

I agree with Rag’s. There is still a static distance between the holes no matter how you measure it.

All types are the same except in the way they orientate the thumb pitches (and oval angle) to the center line.

But you could still get a center line pitch measurement and just drill off of it.

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: mrbowlingnut on August 18, 2004, 02:44:28 PM

kotm and luckylefty are the best and describing these drills, i use an 1 1/4 clt offset myself it lays much more of your hand on the ball than standard t-grip. It gives you more control, revs and just feels good for me i believe some hands need this drill and some do not. The less flexible benefit more from this feel than a younger more agile person with more flexibility does IMO. It keeps more of hand below the equator the ball and lets me impart more rotation and tilt than with anything in the past i could ever put on too a standard t grip ball. This drilling is more common with pro bowlers than most would think as my coach Bill Hall drilled on the pba tour for 18 years and is the one that figured out that i needed this drilling for a better cleaner release. You can also go to far with the offset so be careful i tried a 2" offset on one ball and it actually stays stuck on my hand too long so just a thought that more is not always better.

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: tenpinspro on August 18, 2004, 02:50:14 PM

Hey Rags,

There is an offset thumb drilling, it's known as the Collier grip or a 2x3 shift.  The thumb should be sitting directly in line with your middle finger after drilling.  It doesn't change your span.  Rags, your ball driller is supposed to drop your ring to match the span if your ring was is longer by measurement.  The Collier(spelling?) is supposed to be more comfortable to the hand.  If you take your hand(relaxed) and turn it upside down(palm up), your thumb is more truly aligned with your middle finger(if not outside) than the middle of the 2 fingers.  This I believe was the original theory to have an offset.

CLT - Center Line Transposition?  Don't know much about it.  All I know is that you "T" it up normal and then you measure out the thumb to the right while holding the original pitches for fingers.  Basically, it holds the positioning of the old, old, curveall drills(50's?).  Hale and Kelley have a gadget they sell to help find the correct span and measurement for drilling CLTs, it's in the BJ.  Hope this helps...

Rick

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Ragnar on August 18, 2004, 02:55:17 PM

Rick, all I know is that when I measured some of my old offset stuff the span to the ring finger was about 1/8" more than what it was supposed to be.  Seems to me (and I sure as he!! ain't an expert driller) that if you move the thumb left, then "chase" it with the ring finger to maintain the span all you've really done is to reorient your layout to the left a few degrees.  But, I drill straight up T grip now so I don't worry about it.
--------------------
"Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,"
I'm Ragnar Floggurass, and I approve this message

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: livespive on August 18, 2004, 03:04:09 PM

PM me with your email, I think I still have some of the old
CLT discussions (yes I'm a packrat)
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
 Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: tenpinspro on August 18, 2004, 03:07:39 PM

quote:

---

Rick, all I know is that when I measured some of my old offset stuff the span to the ring finger was about 1/8" more than what it was supposed to be

---

Yeah that's right but all your driller had to was to drop your ring an 1/8 to match your "correct" span.  If it was only an 1/8, then it wasn't a true offset, he just shifted a little like you said.  If the thumb were shifted out under the mid like it's supposed to, it does change the feel and positioning of your hand quite a bit.  Unfortunately, prior to technology, too many guys clipped the thumb with this grip throwing the old non-flaring balls(urethane, plastic and rubber) so I guess the concept faded away...

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Brickguy221 on August 18, 2004, 08:59:20 PM

I am not a drilling Guru by any means, but yes, the CLT does exist. It is what it's name says...Center Line Transfer. On a CLT, the Fingers pitches are drilled on the T-Grip marks but turned a bit to the right for a right hander (opposite for a left hander) using the new center line and a line drawn perpindicular to this line. How much varies from bowler to bowler depending how far the new center line you drew is from the center of thumbhole. You still end up with the same span length on each finger, but the pitches have been turned to the right for a right hander and the opposite for a left hander. When done, the fit of the ball feels completely different although no spans have changed. In fact it is much more comfortable than the T-Grip as I tried it, but didn't like it even though it was sooooo comfortable.

There are a lot of people on this site that know about the CLT...KOTM, LuckyLefty, pin-chaser-Mr. Buzzsaw UK. livespive, Doug Sterner, and etc. There are a lot more people than this familar with the CLT Grip, but these are some that quickly came to mind just now.

Now for an offset thumb, yes there is such a thing, but I won't go into detail at this time. I have instructions for both the CLT and Offset Thumb, but I don't know how to take them out of my folder and repost them here as I don't know that much about operating computers....

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: TECH SUPPORT on August 18, 2004, 09:20:58 PM

http://12.22.230.41/MicroTech/Hosted/Files-A/2_CLT_DRILLING_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf


Your welcome.
--------------------
IN SEARCH OF THE PERFECT TWINS

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 18, 2004, 09:49:13 PM

These are two different concepts!!

Offset thumb and CLT.

Offset thumb is just that.  Move thumb, drop ring finger and orient thumb pitches parallel to the original center line(will be pointing near middle finger depending on how much the thumb is offset!

CLT is only that.  Thumb is done the same as always, pitches oriented to the original center line(pointing at bridge).

Fingers as shown in the very good PDF above are oriented down a line drawn between the middle and ring finger.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS the effect of both above put finger pitches to the side of the thumb.

But the important difference is that the Thumb offset pitches are oriented parallel to the center line and the CLT thumb pitches are oriented to the center of the bridge like always.

Both feel different from each other and both feel different from the standard T grip.

Joe of Allstarbowling is an expert on Thumb Offset, Brian Omara is the god of CLT!

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: stormerjip on August 18, 2004, 10:19:27 PM

so do u put the thumb in normal spot

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Hammer3003 on August 19, 2004, 12:38:52 AM

I have mine off set under my middle finger
--------------------
Bowl To Win!!!

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 19, 2004, 08:46:09 AM

Depends, in the thumg offset you asked about thumb is set somewhere under the middle finger.  Yes moved!

In the CLT the thumb is left in the original T grip position.  Fingers pitches are oriented down a line drawn between middle and ring finger.  Thumb not moved!

The concept of thumb offset is to put thumb out from straight under bridge an amount that makes sense based on YOUR hand on the ball.  How much is your thumb out from your bridge?

The concept of the center line transfer is that the fingers do not pull straight down to the centerline.  Therefore pitches are oriented down the line between ring and middle finger.  

Again two different concepts and methods.
Thumb offset move thumb, drop ring finger.
CLT= center line transfer, leave holes where thay are and reorient finger pitches(leave thumb where it is).

Two methods, two ways of drilling them.  Two different feels.  Standard drilling another method of drilling and another set of feels!

REgards,

Luckylefty

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Hammer3003 on August 19, 2004, 02:13:40 PM

Lefty, if I have no pitch on my fingers and I am getting a small blood blister on my ring finger what should I try to keep from it progressing?

Can I just pitch the finger holes different?

What would you suggest?
--------------------
Bowl To Win!!!

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: Brickguy221 on August 19, 2004, 03:05:08 PM

Brunswick, LuckyLefty needs to know exactly where you are getting the blister before he can advise.

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income

Title: Re: can someone explain the offset thumb driling
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 19, 2004, 03:52:25 PM

If on the pad it's usually too long a span, you can check for that, if joint is not comfortably past middle of hole too long.

Or too much forward for your flexibility!

You should look if on pad for one of those two.

Regards,

Luckylefty