Author Topic: carry issues (Read 1947 times)

toomanytenpins · « **on:** February 12, 2012, 07:29:27 AM »

I am having a very difficult time carrying as of late. No matter where I am bowling or the shot I am reading my carry potential is about 40 percent. I make adjustments and jjust leave a different single pin. ten pins 4 pins 7 pins 8 and ninesdepending on the adjustments I make and its giving me the flux. I know their are no quick fixes,but what have some of you done to bring your game back. Its like being in the ring with Ali and I am Foreman throwing all I have waiting for the inevitable 8 round. I avg 190 to 204 in 3 leagues in 3 houses,but even my better games are under 230 because of the carry issues. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 15mph high track player and I have decent versatility,but really bad consistency between shots.

my style, the art of bowling without bowling

Mbosco · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:28:42 PM »

I went through this recently too. My house doesn't put out a lot of oil, so what I did was do some extra practice with my spare ball as a strike ball. I feel like plastic needs a lot more touch with hand position/release to get it to read the lane and go through the pins right, and after just a little practice like that I was able to manipulate all my equipment's reaction downlane a lot better. I was having some absolutely terrible carry (on just about every type of hit I left twice as many 7s as 10s), but now it's all straightened out.

I know it's not the most official or polished answer, but I didn't have to mess with my posture or timing (which I felt were just fine), and now I have a few more reliable tools at my disposal.

Track_Fanatic · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:34:32 PM »

I'm thinking there are 2 things that come to mind regarding this. One is getting the correct entry angle. The other is getting the ball to go through the 3 stages. Once you can be consistent with both, your carry will increase and of course your scores will too.

aussiedave · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:36:48 PM »

Have you tried slowing the pace a little? Even 1 m.p.h. can make a difference. Try a shorter pushaway to accomplish this.

jdball299 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2012, 10:12:17 PM »

I have been battling this very issue for most of this season. My last tournament I was +50 after an 8 game block with 6 clean games and a low game of 179....yeah bowling

Like you I don't leave the same single pin twice in a row, and there is no pattern to anything. I'll go (left-handed) 7, 9, 6, 7, 10 and throw a strike or two in the mix for good measure, usually on shots that are not my best. I am still working on it, but I have started going back to my game plan from 10 years ago, longer pin to pap (5" or more) drillings on weaker solids and pearls and play closer or right on top of the dry. I'm getting a much better roll and read, and I believe things are on the upswing, but its hard to say at this point. Frustrating to say the least.

"...do or do not, there is no try."

St. Louis USBC Sport Bowling
Best Bowling Pro Shops Inc., St. Louis MO.

mainzer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2012, 08:38:11 AM »

I like to get a bit straighter when the carry seems to be going away, if that means release adjustments or simply going to a ball that has more surface that will start a bit earlier that is what I will do. Not alot straighter mind but just a little change up the angles a bit, also I make small adjustments with my feet, 3 inches back half a board left just to try to make little angle changes on the lane.

MainzerPower

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2012, 08:55:59 AM »

Track_Fanatic wrote on 12.02.2012 5:34 PM:
I'm thinking there are 2 things that come to mind regarding this. One is getting the correct entry angle. The other is getting the ball to go through the 3 stages. Once you can be consistent with both, your carry will increase and of course your scores will too.

Second that. With - what you seem to recognize as basic source of trouble - too little oil, both things can be hard to achieve. One thing is that the ball just bleeds too much energy, too early. It will hit weak, rolling out, just pushing pins instead of mixing them and tarsting the proper chain reaction that carries the deck. Too much entry angle when you keep the swing tight or washouts when you play too far out to the gutter are other symptoms. The ball hooks, but that's it.

IMHO, breakpoint control is the main issue here. Try to watch when the ball goes after skid through hook and finally roll. In your case it might be that the ball is already rolling dead straight after half of the lane. Delaying the skid/hook/roll transition, so that the ball gets into its final roll phase just a tad before hitting the pins could be the key. You can experiment with more speed, weaker equipment (surface, core (higher RG) layout, coverstock aggressiveness to dry areas) or release tricks (adding tilt, breaking hand back) as well as different lines - or a mix of all of this. There's no patent recipe here, just the proper ball reaction. It might even be that you "kill" the ball so far that it does not hook much at all, but as long as you get it to roll in time and keep the entry angle within sensible limits (so that the five pin is hit) things are IMO O.K. You just need to find a "mix" that feels comfortable to you and is reproducable.

Good luck, though, a tough one!

DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

dmonroe814 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2012, 10:22:55 AM »

I agree with the entry angle. I have been struggling with 10-pin, etc since they changed the oiling pattern around Christmas. Now people who hook the ball are struggling with carry and the straigher bowlers are carrying everything they touch. I think I may have figured it out this weekend. I move my game 5 boards to the right to get into the strokers area of play. Now instead of 13 to 8 board, I am not throwing from 8 out to the 4 board. They look like the same pocket hits, but suddenly, I started carrying again.

Track_Fanatic wrote on 2/12/2012 5:34 PM:
I'm thinking there are 2 things that come to mind regarding this. One is getting the correct entry angle. The other is getting the ball to go through the 3 stages. Once you can be consistent with both, your carry will increase and of course your scores will too.

Old Man Still Learning
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2)
Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214
Tweener-Cranker (14Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol
Medium: C300 Outburst Pol / C300 Game Pearl
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:30:53 AM »

Different pins left consecutive times is all in YOUR consistency.

First step is fix that! Then you can determine what to change.

A dramatic item in inconsistency is where and how is your slide foot placed at the end of your slide.

The best and most consistent bowlers have their heel in line with their arm swing or the heel slightly closer to the arm swing. If you have the heel away from your arm swing you will have it away by various amounts and never get that solid base upon which consistency is based. I pass this tip along from Dave Davis the PBA hall of famer whom I was lucky enough to bowl with when I got interested.

In addition the really consistent have their arm swing about 2 inches from their ankle or slightly less. Every ball farther than that from the ankle leads to lack of balance, change in release etc.

Bill Taylor whom I got to learn from for a few days said in person and in one of his pamplets said that one of his favorite things to do was call which leave a bowler would leave based on positions of the body at the line. He made a lot of money doing it he claimed.

Body position consistency at the foul line will lead to leaving one pin then you can make adjustments to take out that pin. First things first.

REgards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

dmonroe814 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2012, 05:58:15 AM »

Aren't all Lefty's Lucky?

LuckyLefty wrote on 2/13/2012 12:30 PM:
Different pins left consecutive times is all in YOUR consistency.

First step is fix that! Then you can determine what to change.

A dramatic item in inconsistency is where and how is your slide foot placed at the end of your slide.

The best and most consistent bowlers have their heel in line with their arm swing or the heel slightly closer to the arm swing. If you have the heel away from your arm swing you will have it away by various amounts and never get that solid base upon which consistency is based. I pass this tip along from Dave Davis the PBA hall of famer whom I was lucky enough to bowl with when I got interested.

In addition the really consistent have their arm swing about 2 inches from their ankle or slightly less. Every ball farther than that from the ankle leads to lack of balance, change in release etc.

Bill Taylor whom I got to learn from for a few days said in person and in one of his pamplets said that one of his favorite things to do was call which leave a bowler would leave based on positions of the body at the line. He made a lot of money doing it he claimed.

Body position consistency at the foul line will lead to leaving one pin then you can make adjustments to take out that pin. First things first.

REgards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Old Man Still Learning
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2)
Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214
Tweener-Cranker (14Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol
Medium: C300 Outburst Pol / C300 Game Pearl
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl

toomanytenpins · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:46:12 AM »

thank you all for the very soung advice. I was bowling yesterday and as lefty advised,i started noticing that the closer to my ankle i released the ball the better my carry was. I further think I realized that I get complacent and dont do the same thing every time. I would throw 6 7 in a row,sit down,and when i got up I through a totally different shot. Worst thing was it took me almost 7 additional shots to find it again. So I think for me focus is one of my big problems. In practice you can filter out other people,wait time between shots,which lends to cooling and stiffening of the muscles,my hand fits the same everytime I pick up the ball,so forth and so on. In competetive settings its harder to establish a rythm and that is a killer for my consistency. Thanks for the advice its a work in progress.

my style, the art of bowling without bowling

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:47:23 AM »

Tommy,

The heel position may be as if not more important than distance from the heel. Great stylists on the pro tour with everything else correct have had careers they never understood as not quite that great because of various heel positions from shot to shot. This factor called posting causes various amounts of shoulder over the shot and multiple various hand release positions because of the upper body varying in relation to the base connection to the lane(slide foot).

As to being Lucky and all lefties, Don I think you are right on there. If you browse my meager profile accomplishments some would think I might be a little luckier than some others.

All I can say is that for about a week I did the two things mentioned above for about 130 out 144 balls. People who saw this thought I was someone else, much better than me! The consistency if one can do this is incredible.

Dave Davis relayed to me that he practiced these concepts in every practice session since 1957. This practice is so intent that he does not pay attention to the shot, where he is striking or anything. ONLY that he is within 2 inches of his ankle and that his heel is canted towards his swing arm.

I think some said he was pretty GOOD!

I occassionally drift into that zone of competance but usually just when bowling games against my powerhouse son!

He is almost scared on those days. Not much!

REgards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

dmonroe814 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2012, 10:08:23 AM »

Great advice from Lefty. Consistency or Shot Repeatability is alway the primary key.

Old Man Still Learning
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2)
Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214
Tweener-Cranker (14Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol
Medium: C300 Outburst Pol / C300 Game Pearl
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl

avabob · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2012, 06:53:21 PM »

With todays equipment the biggest detriment to carry is loss of rotational energy after the ball turns the corner despite a decent entry angle. It is a huge problem for medium speed strokers ( slower ball speed, and rev dominant ) on house shots. Straighter low rev guys can hang around a couple boards outside the oil and go up the boards. Crankers can get deep and not suffer the energy loss of the strokers.

If this sounds like you then, a couple of things might work. Try going with a urethane ball that allows you to square up a bit more and get further right into the dry. Alternatively a softer release with reduced revs can accomplish the same thing.

I speak from experience. Low axis rotation and medium speed with 280 rpm gives me a great look on flat patterns, but half the time I can't carry a lick on house shots.

Author Topic: carry issues (Read 1947 times)

toomanytenpins

carry issues

Mbosco

Re: carry issues

Track_Fanatic

Re: carry issues

aussiedave

Re: carry issues

jdball299

Re: carry issues

mainzer

Re: carry issues

dizzyfugu

Re: carry issues

dmonroe814

Re: carry issues

LuckyLefty

Re: carry issues

dmonroe814

Re: carry issues

toomanytenpins

Re: carry issues

LuckyLefty

Re: carry issues

dmonroe814

Re: carry issues

avabob

Re: carry issues