BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: stormerjip on November 09, 2003, 11:11:31 PM
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I know this has been covered a million times but i will bring it back again. I have been having a ton of carry problems. especially since i have switched companies which may have nothing to do with it. I have a mid trrack in between high and low. above average revs at about 17-18mph. I went from storm to visionary because i like the hit of visionary better and they rev up a little better for me. its been about 1 month and I am still having the trouble.
I am not leaving many 10s but now on solid pocket shots there are being some strange leaves. Like last friday the first game 10 solid shots 7 strikes 3
7-10s. then 2nd game i started leaving 4-9's and 9-7's right handed. then went to a tournament sunday is 4 games had 12 9 pins 4 4-9's 3 10 pins and then 4 7-10's. I am using 16 and didn't know if moving to 15 would help at all but didn't know what to change or what. I ended up trying 6 balls and all with different lines and stuff and couldn't carry but then if someone else goes through nose and carries but my problem is i leave 9's and other stuff every where not just there.
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ttt
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hey bull i know entry angles and stuff if u had read my post i said i tried different balls and ifferent angles different lines and hand positions and amish thnks u got the point of my post.
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I use a lot of Visionary equipment and have found Ron C's Finger Dancing Tip to be very helpful, along with playing more direct.
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm
All of my equipment is 15#, so I dont have any experience on moving down in weight, but that would give you more deflection so probably fewer 9 pins.
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I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing!"
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I used to use 16's, but I never threw the ball that hard or revved it that much when I did, and actually it's been so long I've forgotten any problems I might have had. I DO remember that mixers used to carry better with 16's, BUT, 15's are a lot easier on my hand. The equipment is so strong that 16's can only accentuate the problems with solid back row leaves, but it's still present with 15's. 14's deflect a little too much I think and tend to leave 10's, and I still left solid back row junk with them, so overall I think that 15's are probably the best weight. For some people, they feel too light, so that's probably the biggest factor for you.
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The weekly signature series, by Hamster.
My cat is 21. I never thought I'd see the day when I'd actually think that 21 year old "kitty" was a bad thing.
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I don't know how i left it but i do have six lanes of league that watched me do it. the 7-10 never even wiggled the pins were flying but didn't manag to touch either of them. and mi I have tried moving my fingers as well i have done most everything and just seem to have the most awful carry
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I also have carry problems but then again I think any bowler
you ask will tell you he doesn't carry enough.
You say you changed balls, lines, and hand posistion but nothing
helped. Then logic says it has to be one of the things that
has not changed. That leaves ball weight and ball speed and ball
surface has not been touched upon.
I find that when I throw the ball over 16 mph my pocket hits
blow the rack apart but if they are not picture perfect then I
will leave single pin spares or worse. When my ball speed is
less then 16 mph more pins stay low on the deck and I get much
more pin action and more scouts helping me out as well.
Since you are already throwing a 16lb ball 17-18 mph and reving
the ball up pretty good(according to you) going down in ball weight
will only make you throw the ball harder and probably cause you more
problems.
I suggest trying a ball with lots of thumb weight and try to stay
away from high gloss finishes on bowling equipment. Use equipment
with 1000 grit or more grit finishes so that the ball actually burns
up some of its energy going down the lane so that it does not pack
quite as much punch when it gets to the hole.
This is just my opinion. I am not a pro by any means but
I know from experience where you are coming from because I used
to have the same problem. Trial and error is how I come to the
above conclusion.
Jac
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I did it last night. threw the first 2 balls heavy in the pocket and carried. made a small adjustment and hit flush and let a 7-10. I did notice that the balls break point was a little further down lane.made another adjustment and left a few 8's and 10's made a small tweak and ran it off the sheet.
so it just a match up problem. last year I left about a dozen 7-10 flush pocket hits. or what appears to be a pocket hit. I think that the angle is a little to steap and the ball hits the too much of the 3 pin and the side of the one a tad much.
try and move the breakpoint a few feet sooner.
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
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Most of this sounds like wrong equipment choices, specifically, too much ball for the condition. You say you have gone to earlier rev'ing equipment. Fine. But the earlier rev may well be bringing you higher into the pocket that it appears and the ball apparently is not deflecting on some hits and is dying on others. The seven tens, in context, may well be rollouts, while the others are drive throughs. I am not so certain, given the leaves you are describing, that "angle" of entry, per se is the problem. You could: (a) increase your speed; (b) move to longer, flippier or milder equipment; or (c) reduce your rev rate.
Try the following: if you have a choice of two balls to use, and you would generally use the stronger, try using the weaker. I'll bet your carry percentage will increase.
Oh, FYI, I have been having "carry problems" as well. With upper medium revs and medium speed, I am in the tube on average 31-34 times per set, and carry about 55%. Average for someone with my revs and speed (and yours) on a house condition is about 65-70%.
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"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Edited on 11/11/2003 11:54 AM
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Solid 7-10?
Too steep of an entry angle - in essence hitting "behind"
the head pin. Looks like a "great shot" from the
2-dimensional front view. Not so great top-down.
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Questions? Drop me a line: haestas-(at)-yahoo.com
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If you're leaving pocket 7-10's and 4's or 4-9's, your ball has too much positive weight and/or your layout is giving you too much length. You need to mellow out your reaction, getting a more even arc and less of a hockey stick reaction. =:^D
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i went a
burgandy gryphon drilled leverage
dc tour box condition drilled to go long and snap
green gargoyle same as dc tour
slate blue drilled 1:30
red executioner drilled left handed
charcol ex drilled to roll earlier
blue sparkle gryphon drilled 4x4
the reason i was thinking 15 is cause i have to try to throw hard to keep speed up or i can't get enough hand out of the ball. and it does appear some i don't get any deflection and they claim that u can turn a 15 pund harder than a 16
Edited on 11/11/2003 12:32 PM
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Storm, try some CG out drillings, maybe with the CG on your axis, 4" pin, hole on your axis. Also, lowering your positive side weight will help, maybe even going to negative. =:^D
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quote:
i went a
burgandy gryphon drilled leverage
dc tour box condition drilled to go long and snap
green gargoyle same as dc tour
slate blue drilled 1:30
red executioner drilled left handed
charcol ex drilled to roll earlier
blue sparkle gryphon drilled 4x4
Uh huh...just as I thought. If your specs are right, then unless you see a LOT more oil than I ever see, The Burgundy (aggressive particle cover, strong core), DC Tour (very aggressive core and aggressive reactive cover), Charcoal (solid early grabbing cover and strong core) and Blue Sparkle (aggressive cover) are going to leave exactly the combinations you are discussing above -- 4-9s, 7-9s, pocket 7-10s. The Crimson is an early rolling shiny ball, which -- even drilled lefthanded, would have the problems you are describing (although to a lesser degree than the other equipment).
The Green would probably be my baseline ball. The others would probably lead to the kind of leaves you are having -- for me.
FYI, I have above average revs, forward roll, relatively low tilt or axis rotation and generally throw the ball about 16-17 mph.
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"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Edited on 11/11/2003 12:49 PM
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Sounds to me like your release is not very consistent. You're alternating between hits that deflect too little (solid 9) and hits that deflect too much (pocket 7-10). The 7-10's look like they're high flush, but if you watch the replay when a pro leaves one (e.g. PBIII a couple of weeks ago), the ball deflected too much off the head pin.
Maybe it's not the equipment; maybe it's you. See if you can locate a good coach to watch you bowl and suggest a course of action.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
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I have used a coach and the shot at the tournament was 45ft sport shot
the other is a short christmas tree with really heavy heads pattern with good amount of carrydown
the third i use my slate blue and is a short pattern but still pretty heavy
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even with my old equipment i was leaving the same things. i have been hanging these for three years and the top regional pros at the tournament was talking about my strike shots were as good as anyone but i wasn't geting the breaks or carry needed
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If you are consistently leaving the same pins, in your case combinations with the 9, it has nothing to do with "breaks". You need to make the necessary adjustments to stop leaving them. As others have already mentioned, 9 pins are the result of the ball driving too hard through the rack. There are lots of possible solutions, and you must experiment to find the one that will work for you.
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u know if i knew what else to try it would be great but when me and my coach have gone over everything that we know to try to get them to carry we are out of ideas. the only thing that i haven't tried is 15 pound ball rather than 16 but if i do that i imagine i am going to throwing way to hard. and for those of u that say then take hand out of the ball its like a usa bowling certified coach said from the office just because the book doesn't say that u can be high rev u can't go in and tell pete weber that he has to many revs or his backswing is to high to be a good bowler. u can add things to ur game but u can't take things off that are naturally there.
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Don't imagine, just try a 15lber if it blows through the break, cut the surface down a little. If that is a no go i would look to stepping up to another coach for a "second opinion" or different eye. Not every coach has all the answers and sometimes it takes the teachings of a few meshed in, to your game to get results. When trying a 15lb throw more than 5-10 games to get a feel. Every time i have switched weights it took some time to show off the good or bad points of changing.
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ttt