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Author Topic: carrydown..  (Read 7338 times)

jlm797

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carrydown..
« on: April 14, 2010, 09:33:15 AM »
Is there really any such thing anymore?
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mj79

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2010, 05:36:56 PM »
do they still coat the lanes with oil?? Why wouldnt there be? the ball soaks up oil, yes, but it still pushes a good amount past the end line of the pattern
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Edited on 4/14/2010 5:37 PM
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2010, 05:53:07 PM »
quote:
Is there really any such thing anymore?  


You must not bowl in seniors leagues where they still use rubber, plastic, and older urethanes.  


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psaunders300

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2010, 05:55:49 PM »
If you are able to, walk behind the lanes and look at them after bowling and you will see the oil on the back part of the lane...this is carry down.
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Juggernaut

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2010, 06:16:12 PM »
quote:
Is there really any such thing anymore?


 http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_oct_for_slowinski.pdf
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charlest

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2010, 07:24:51 PM »
quote:
quote:
Is there really any such thing anymore?


 http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_oct_for_slowinski.pdf
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Unfortunately this is only true if you have no one using urethane or plastic (spare balls) or rubber or you have freshly oiled just before the league or tournament and you do not have Guardian overlay and you have everyone using resin ball. Otherwise, there is carrydown,
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

six pack

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2010, 08:17:59 PM »
mavbe not carry down but bowling with a bunch of lane sprayers sure pushes it around for awhile.
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Strider

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2010, 08:37:03 PM »
It still exists because I've seen it.  I think the depleted head oil is a much bigger problem.

Covers soak up a lot of the oil, but at the bow ties where the flare lines intersect, the oil doesn't have time to absorb.  It's where the bow ties make contact with the dry back ends that carry down occurs.

Get on a fresh lane, throw a few games with your average resin ball, then get permission to walk down lane and look at the lane from the pins back towards the end of the oil.  You'll see the dots of oil where it "carried down".  Like I said earlier, I think depleted head oil affects reaction more than carry down, but carry down still exists.
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motorbike

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 08:49:17 PM »
try bowling in a league against a team of college kids that throw house balls  with no thumb. carry down is definitely an issue.
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kingpin268

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2010, 10:33:01 PM »
On shorter patterns with heavier volume, oil does carrydown and fast at that. Cheetah starts out very touchy for me during the first few shots of practice. By the end of practice, I'll have tug room inside as the balls push oil downlane. Happens that fast. This is an extreme case, but it's there all the same.
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ImakeA2srun

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2010, 10:47:33 PM »
If u have ever had an out of range pin, then there is carry down.
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scotts33

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2010, 11:55:29 PM »
In Mr. Slowinski's article... http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_oct_for_slowinski.pdf he says....."Unless you come to a bowling center after hours of open play or a birthday party, your change of ball motion
is not a result of carrydown."  Then he uses an example at Kegel Training Center 2007 Junior Gold pattern.

My question is does anyone bowl in leagues or tourney's where no one uses urethane or poly?  In most cases you will see this a lot.  I do anyway...follow a 4 person teachers league where 75% are using poly and old urethane.  Please Mr. Slowinski come to my house and drag your finger across the lane behind the oil line and tell me there is no carry down!  Mr. Slowinski does not take this into account.  If I saw the types of ball usage he alludes to I would agree with him...I do NOT so I do NOT agree with him.  Hr presents a best case scenario BUT in the real world where ALL kinds of equipment are used YES THERE IS CARRY DOWN!
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scotts33

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 08:31:11 AM »
quote:
It is funny to me how some people have missed the point of that article completely. There weren't plastic and urethane balls being thrown. It was an absolutely fresh pattern laid down and verified by the people who make the lane oil and oiling machines. In other words, this was as close as one could get to a laboratory setting for a controlled  experiment. Can there be "carry down" in a league setting where one doesn't know what procedure the lane man followed when a pattern was put down, what the temp difference is between lane oiling and bowling time, type of ball usage, etc, etc. Possibly. Somebody sees "dots of oil" at the deck and immediately says it is carry down. How do you know what you are seeing isn't "spots of dry" where backends weren't stripped and oil is being depleted? You believe what you want, I will make my ball and line changes based on that article. Call me crazy but I just want to believe what Kegel has to say on the matter as I think they might be just a little more qualified and knowledgable about the situation.  


The point is that in Mr. Slowinski's article that there was no poly or urethane usage it's a best case scenario.  How often in the real world of bowling do you see no poly or urethane usage in leagues or even tourney's?

Check thru the urethane threads on BR.com.  There are many asking about Storm Naturals, Seismic Desperado's, Hype Urethane, etc.  I see a lot of urethane usage in leagues.  There is Mr. Slowinski's unreal world where everyone uses reactives and there is the reality of what bowling is today.

Bulldozers and erasers.


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charlest

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 08:34:45 AM »
The point of the article is that there is no such thing as carrydown. He does not state or even imply that there could be any circumstances under which there is or could be carrrydown. If everyone ALWAYS bowled on freshy applied oil AND always used only resin balls, then I would agree.

However, in the real world, people do not always bowl on freshly applied oil.
They do not always use only resin ball. There is carrydown at times. The less bowling center management cares for lanes (such things as, not stripping the backends daily) and leagues (allowing open bowling before leagues and after applying oil), the more likely we are to see carrydown and not just lane breakdown.

If your center takes care of your leagues and you really do not see carrydown, consider yourself lucky. That''s one less thing you have to worry about  or consider as a possibility when your ball reaction changes.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 4/15/2010 8:36 AM
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Bowlin for Beer

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Re: carrydown..
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 09:34:27 AM »
Yes.  After bowling practice on the last pair for a couple of hours, I walked down along the last lane and I could not believe the amount of oil pushed down lane beyond the 37-foot length of the pattern.  I have heard about carrydown, but seriously couldn't believe how much there was.  There were oil streaks 4-5 feet long arching all around the breakpoint towards the pocket.  So, you should not only move left on the approach and at the arrows to avoid it, but also move your breakpoint closer to the pocket, inside of the carrydown.
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