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Author Topic: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?  (Read 2836 times)

strikestriketapped

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Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« on: January 23, 2009, 05:14:07 AM »
I understand that carrydown is oil that has been pushed down the lane. Is there anything else to it? What type of balls are least effective on carrydown and what type of surfaces? What do you find to be the best way(s) to attack lanes with carrydown? Thanks.

 

Necromancer

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 01:40:41 PM »
quote:
I understand that carrydown is oil that has been pushed down the lane. Is there anything else to it? What type of balls are least effective on carrydown and what type of surfaces? What do you find to be the best way(s) to attack lanes with carrydown? Thanks.


No, oil will move based on simple physics.
Least effective = Plastic
Best way is to get a ball that can roll through carrydown or roll early or throw straighter like Norm Duke.
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n00dlejester

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 01:46:52 PM »
Carrydown is usually affected by what type of surface the lanes are - some spread the oil more evenly, others will have mids that dry up as the backend gets carrydown.  

A good rule of thumb for PBA patterns:  carry down will add a 4-6 feet of length to the oil pattern.

What I do for carrydown is I'll move right and play more direct, even angle it if need be.  I do this on Scorpion and Shark patterns when I experience carrydown.  Then, as it starts to wear away (which will be quick since the amount of oil pushed down teh lane isn't a ton), start chasing the oil left to find more oil in the heads.
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jbuzz31

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 02:02:29 PM »
particle pearls are a good way to fight carrydown
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strikestriketapped

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 02:06:03 PM »
How do I know that I am seeing carrydown? Our lane type is Anvilane (not pro).

jbuzz31

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 02:07:31 PM »
quote:
How do I know that I am seeing carrydown? Our lane type is Anvilane (not pro).


a good way to know is if you see your ball revving up downlane and then do nothing.
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thirtyclean

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 02:12:39 PM »
Pay close attention your teamates and bowlers around you. Typically, in some of our leagues, carrydown begins right after practice. Some shots that were walking into the pocket, were coming in light and or were washing out. You have to able to recognize this quickly. The opposite also applies, where alleys break down, watching bowlers around you will give you the key. Solid reactives usually are not affected as much, when carrydown occurs.
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bhsbigcountry

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 09:55:55 PM »
most of them got it right just oil being pushed down lane. using plastic balls move the oil down lane quick. but there are a lot of people that think with just using reactive balls that the thought of carry down is becomming less and less due to the fact that the balls today are absorbing more oil and not just having it all on the surface of the ball. and in this theory it is more the heads burning up which causes the ball to roll earlier which will decrease the back end reaction making it look like carry down but its more of the ball rolling sooner.
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JessN16

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 10:56:36 PM »
Lane surface is a big factor but I've found the bigger factor to be what your opponents are using. I bowl on a mixed handicap league aimed at beginners in the summer (they ask some of the more experienced bowlers to join to help out the others) and I'm going to tell you, that league is harder than some sport shots I've been on. Three-quarters bowl with plastic and they're spraying the ball everywhere, and by the middle of the second game, there IS no pattern. Someone mentioned particle pearl balls, and I carry a couple -- at least -- every week in the summer.

This year, they ran that same league as a get-a-ball league, and most everyone got Black Widow Pearls near the end of the year. My average went up 6 pins the last 3 weeks, after they all switched to resin, because the lanes broke down in a more expected fashion and the carrydown was less.

I bowl on HPLs, which are higher friction than AnviLane, and I still see a lot of carrydown on some nights.

There seems to be a debate among some about whether carrydown exists, because burn-up can mimic it if you don't know what to look for, and many people who think they're seeing carrydown are actually seeing burn-up. It hasn't quite reached the scope of the CG/no CG fight, but some people are adamant that carrydown isn't prevalent. I disagree.

To fight it, you're either going to have to get equipment that will go through it (typically particle-based) or around it (by changing your ball path). You'll stay in your comfort zone more by switching balls, but then you're at the mercy of the oil in the heads. Once the heads go, particle gear, even particle pearl, is typically a no-no. Then you're forced into a path change (and maybe a speed change, too) whether you want to be or not.

I find it easier for my game to go around it on the outside rather than chase the oil in, past a certain point.

Jess

Edited on 1/24/2009 11:58 PM

mainzer

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 10:16:00 PM »
I see carry down on weekly basis due to the house I bowl in having Guardian in the front and then wood the rest of the way, I find myself nudging right at the end of the first game, then wait for the track to burn through then go back left has fast I can, I usually stay with the same ball and adjust hand position, rev rates, and speed instead of changing balls. I will only change balls on carry down if I start having issues carry issues or inconsitent reads.
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JessN16

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Re: Carrydown - What is it and how to attack it?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2009, 11:31:23 PM »
quote:
Everything you ever wanted to know:

The Myth of Carrydown
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_oct_for_slowinski.pdf
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This is sort of what I was referring to, and even though I typically like Joe's work (especially his "Quiet Eye" targeting system), I respectfully disagree with this article and I think it may have done a disservice as well as a service.

For instance, what kind of oil was used? If this was done at the Kegel Training Center, I'd be willing to bet they didn't bowl on cheap stuff. What was everyone throwing (i.e., resin, polyester, etc.)?

I'll agree with him that I don't tend to see a lot of carrydown if everyone is using resin. But introduce plastic into the mix and that changes.

Oil type has got to be part of it, because our carrydown problems started about the time our center went to "different" oil ("different" being cheaper, probably). Don't think there isn't a difference in oils? Ask a PBA exempt player if there's any difference between Kegel and Brunswick, for example.

If there was anything positive to that article, it got people thinking about carrydown vs. burn-up. But to say carrydown isn't there just based on the results of this test doesn't paint a clear picture. I've seen oil past the stop line when doing lane inspections before.

The big problem a lot of us are seeing in today's game is a confluence of (a) lower overall volume, which when coupled with the oil sponges we're throwing, leads to depletion in the heads, and then (b) many switch to urethane or polyester to get through the heads, and that pushes whatever is left down the lane. If you bowl in a mixed-league environment, it gets even worse.

Jess