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Author Topic: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***  (Read 32806 times)

BrunsNick

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CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« on: April 18, 2007, 12:10:11 PM »
The CGNOMADDAH video is up and running on www.brunsnick.com

Enjoy.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
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Nick Smith
Digital Media Manager - Brunswick Bowling
http://www.brunswickbowling.com
http://www.youtube.com/c/brunsnick

 

kmanestor22

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #196 on: April 25, 2007, 02:39:57 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
kman,

What if I told you that a ball doesn't recognize core shape going down the lane, only RG #s and Differential #s?
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!



I'd say that I have been better informed than you.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer


Actually, I was quoting Bill Wasserberger.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!


And my theory here is paraphrasing Mo Pinel's proven laws.


--------------------
Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Edited on 4/25/2007 2:40 PM
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kmanestor22

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #197 on: April 25, 2007, 02:48:47 PM »
I have given a rational and scientific explaination refuting your biggest piece of support to your belief and all you can reply with is "Bill Wasserberger" said so?
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
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BrunsNick

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #198 on: April 25, 2007, 03:08:54 PM »
Put your theory to the test then rather than get butthurt with me...

When the Torsion core is put into motion, spinning it at any degrees will not affect track flare or hook potential. Hell, set up parameters for the next test. We'll use the same pin position, but you can put the CG's anywhere you desire. If the orientation of either of those balls mattered as far as their shapes are concerned, they would engrave the ball with a marking similar to the Zone series... but they don't. WHY?!? Because if you draw a line 6 3/4 from the pin ANYWHERE around the equator, the ball is SYMMETRICAL. This is how symmetry is realized, all your talk on 2 axis 4 axis does not matter. You don't need a physics degree, just common sense.

It's symmetrical, no measureable mass bias differential. NONE. ZILCH. SQUAT. NADA.

Now pardon me while I continue to wave my arms around and scream about CG's.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
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Nick Smith
Digital Media Manager - Brunswick Bowling
http://www.brunswickbowling.com
http://www.youtube.com/c/brunsnick

kmanestor22

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #199 on: April 25, 2007, 03:25:08 PM »
Like you said, it is impossible to determine the orientation of the core within the ball because it isn't marked.  That does not mean there isn't physics at work.  You just can't control it.  It IS something they should mark.  This does explain difference in motion one might see by moving the cg position.  The problem is you would have to be psychic or have x-ray eyes to control it.  It does still refute your biggest support.  Moving the cg CAN make a difference, knowing where to move it is a problem.

Also, my test was done with 2 Actions:  the cores are symmetrical on two axes and I STILL saw a distinctly noticable difference, providing the doubt that I have about cg position and sideweights/thumbweights not making a tangible difference.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
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leftehh- LG

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #200 on: April 25, 2007, 03:37:51 PM »
dude, kmanestor, NO ONE CARES! BALLREVIEWS DOES NOT CARE, BRUNSNICK DOES NOT CARE, ...NO ONE CARES. Lets all just drop this subject entirely or brunsnick just lock up this lost cause thread.
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Bowl to Win!


Edited on 4/25/2007 3:36 PM
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Ragnar

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #201 on: April 25, 2007, 04:24:56 PM »
For something that doesn't matter this topic sure takes up a lot of space.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are, Dimitri."
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kmanestor22

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #202 on: April 25, 2007, 08:40:56 PM »
Hey, who stole my Louisville Slugger with Mr Ed's name on it?  I wasn't done yet!!!
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
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DON DRAPER

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #203 on: April 25, 2007, 09:14:07 PM »
x guy, when were you with brunswick ? i remember you working for them but i can't remember the years.
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Xfest

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #204 on: April 25, 2007, 09:14:47 PM »
So you all are saying if I can place my CG on the opposite side of the fingers, or above the fingers, the balls reaction shape will be the same if the cg were normal.

EX:

---CG---
--------
--0--0--
----P---
--------
----O---

(Drilling ofcoarse)
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The Bowler's Shop, Anderson IN
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MegaMav

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #205 on: April 25, 2007, 09:19:04 PM »
quote:
So you all are saying if I can place my CG on the opposite side of the fingers, or above the fingers, the balls reaction shape will be the same if the cg were normal.

EX:

---CG---
--------
--0--0--
----P---
--------
----O---

(Drilling ofcoarse)


If the pin position remains constant, yes, its the same.
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jdhaze

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #206 on: April 25, 2007, 09:25:02 PM »
I dont think CG, pin placement, coverstock or core matter, in all of Nicks videos each ball has the same shape and move to the pocket
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laufaye

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #207 on: April 25, 2007, 11:56:40 PM »
quote:
X-Guy

How are you? Hope all is well with you and the family.

K-Man
To expand upon what BNick has been attemtping to explain...

Symmetry is measured by dividing the core, through the primary pin, measured anywhere 6 3/4" around the equator. It is dynamic numbers, not shape that dictate this.

Now with that being said, ALL balls will or can create a certain amount of asymmetry. This in all honesty would be comparable to CG's and static weights. Brunswick feels, that for the most part, that there are variables, that although present, represent a miniscule amount of effect on ball reaction.

To the point or comment by X-man, is it relevant to 90% (which I think is low) of the current bowlers on 90% of the conditions encountered...NO.

Is it measurable? Yes. Is it relevant to ball reaction or motion? NO.

If the core was perfectly centered, there would be no symmetry in the ball, due to the geometric center of the core and the true center of gravity being one. To create a 1" pin out or 1oz. of top weight, the geometric core center is shifted approx. 1/64"+/- from the true center of gravity. This translates to a 1" pin to CG on the cover of the bowling ball (which is approx. 4 1/4" from the true center of gravity).
What can or will affect symmetry (as well as ball motion and/or reaction) is the addition and/or placement of the gripping holes (as well as weight holes).

If you take 2 bowling balls, same covers and both having IDENTICAL core numbers, RGs and Diffs, but with different core shape and NO holes in the balls, will the core shape dictate reaction or motion differently? NO. It is 'physic'ally impossible, the core numbers dictate motion. What changes? The placement of the gripping holes changes the core values.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

When you take into account the strength of the covers (which dictates approx 70-80% of ball reaction) and the core (approx 15-20%) you realize what is worth discussing and what is merely arguing.

Semantics is semantics. I know this will more than likely not solve anything, as I do not have a degree in physics. But I can tell you, I know ball reaction and what dictates it. You can argue what you will and in the long run or at the end of the day, does it truly F'N matter? NO-for the last and hopefully umpteenth time.




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Ric Hamlin
Pacific Northwest Product Specialist
Brunswick Bowling


AKA "Rico" and L.I.M.O.M.


Ric, thanks for the info, and totally agreed with you, as you say the numbers dictate that 15-20% of reaction, now the problem is once the gripping holes and/or x-hole punched, there lies the problem on a core like Torsion,   I have sent Brunsbob an email and now waiting for Billy O for answer.  What I think but not sure (thats why I asked) is the holes punched in relation with the core orientation, I have no problem on the ending PSA prediction on the whole Infernos line, but not much luck on the Torsion core yet.  But still I like the Fury and bowling good with it and same with my customer.  And yes it may not matter as long as it perform well on the lanes, however I am trying to understand more, just for discussion sake.  This might be off topic, sorry about that Nick.
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Laufaye
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kmanestor22

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #208 on: April 26, 2007, 01:21:28 AM »
Ric do you agree that if you cut a Mammoth in half, pin at the top, the cross section is always symmetrical, but not the same cross section as if you rotated that ball 45 degrees?  If you cut it down through the fin on one and split it halfway between the fins on the other you will get a different cross section, right?  Do you follow me so far?  If you have different widths of the core, different distances from core to cover, you have different Rgs.  Are they as different as any asymmetrical ball?  No.  Are they going the affect ball motion?  Very little.  But the difference is there.  

Rg numbers are either maximums or averages, but they do very through different areas of the core.  The physics is there, but the effect upon motion may not be quantifiable.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
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laufaye

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #209 on: April 26, 2007, 11:20:27 PM »
quote:
Greg, Ric is correct, 2002-2003. I left for a promise of bigger things, I guess if you never take a chance, you  will never know what could have happened, oh well...anyway, back on topic.
Hey Ric, same to you and yours!
Inverted 1 - my sentiments exactly!
I think the problem is that most of you guys are too young to remember making 1/2 board moves trying to get the 10 out....


X-Guy

Its not about how young we are, when most of us spraying all over the lane, how can we adjust 1/2 a board.
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Laufaye
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leftehh- LG

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Re: CG NOMADDAH ***VIDEO***
« Reply #210 on: April 26, 2007, 11:41:15 PM »
oh plz if your going to move move a board not half!
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Bowl to Win!
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