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Author Topic: Changes in your game  (Read 3665 times)

Jorge300

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Changes in your game
« on: December 12, 2008, 12:30:23 AM »
I took a lesson from Mike Jasnau at Nationals this summer. He showed me some things on the video that I was totally not aware of, and made some minor/major changes to my swing. I think in the long run it will be good for my game. But as expected, I am struggling a little this year because of it. My question is to anyone who has made some major tweaks to their game in the past.....how long does it take until you are back to or above your old level? And how much practicing did you do in order to meet that timeframe?

I will be the first to admit, I need to get out and practice more then I do now, especially to work on these changes. But just curious to what others have seen in the past. Thanks.
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KDawg77

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2008, 08:38:33 AM »
Jorge...been there. It's a pain!

I went to Kegel in Summer 2006. I changed my backswing and approach. The changes never really took affect like I had hoped. I made a change on my own that seemed to work from January 07 on, but now have lost my consistency over the last year and a half. I'm still tweaking things in the hopes of regaining form and scores before Nationals. Wish I was more helpful, but I can certainly empathize.

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Krakken

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2008, 08:41:55 AM »
I too took a lesson from Mike at Nationals, but in Reno 2 seasons ago.  IT took the greater part of 6-8 months to have the techniques ingrained where I didn't ahve to think about them.  Once that happened, I made other changes!....lol

My game is and will be a constant work in progress.
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Oskuposer

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2008, 08:45:20 AM »
physical game is awsome now its back to grip change
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 08:53:54 AM »
I guess a lot of it depends on what changes you make.  I've changed my release to get my hand underneath and behind the ball more than I used to for better accuracy, which has made it tough at times to get my axis rotation the way I want it.  I go through two and three week slumps at times when I start getting in the habit of getting too little side rotation on the ball before I realize what I'm doing wrong.

On the other hand, Doene Moos made some changes to my game this summer and had me move up to the front set of dots, stand more upright, and start the ball up much higher in my stance.  It took me only one week to get used to it, and I have executed better ever since then.  Much more balance at the foul line, etc.
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janderson

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 09:08:12 AM »
quote:
how long does it take until you are back to or above your old level? And how much practicing did you do in order to meet that timeframe?


Good to know you make the distinction between the two. The second is probably more important.

If you commit to making the changes (and it sounds like you have), as Dan says, it depends on the changes being made. Some are bigger changes than others. For me, moving from a four to five step delivery took a day. Going from starting the lawn mower to a cup-and-collapse style release took over a year.

Things move along much faster if you use your practice sessions to focus on one change at a time. Ignore score, ignore throwing the ball in the gutter, ignore everything but the one change you are trying to make. Commit X amount of time for working on the one thing to the exclusion of all else. Try to practice alone (if your coach can't be with you) and at a relatively quiet time where you can focus distraction-free.

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dougb

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 09:15:57 AM »
I also had the same experience.  After my last lesson, it only took me a week to get used to standing in a different position (in my case, less upright) and holding the ball higher before I pushaway.  I also found that immediately had better balance at the foul line and much greater consistency on hitting my target.

Other changes, such as timing issues, have taken months of practice and patience.


quote:
I guess a lot of it depends on what changes you make.  I've changed my release to get my hand underneath and behind the ball more than I used to for better accuracy, which has made it tough at times to get my axis rotation the way I want it.  I go through two and three week slumps at times when I start getting in the habit of getting too little side rotation on the ball before I realize what I'm doing wrong.

On the other hand, Doene Moos made some changes to my game this summer and had me move up to the front set of dots, stand more upright, and start the ball up much higher in my stance.  It took me only one week to get used to it, and I have executed better ever since then.  Much more balance at the foul line, etc.
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BowlingWolf

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2008, 09:16:34 AM »
Jorge,

The problem of tweaking too many changes is that doing so at once is not an easy task.

Also, from experience, even though you've paid a knowledgeable expert to help you with your game, it is ultimately up to you to discern which recommendations that he has made apply to your game best—you must feel comfortable with the suggestions made, after having given them a little time to try to make them work.

Based on personal experience, learning is something that is constant.  I’ve never had actual coaches per se (although when I was about 20 years old and used to practice all the time, there was this old-timer that would stand behind me and keep repeating either 1 or all of 3 things: a- your feet were too fast, b-stay behind the ball, and c-follow-thru, which to this day I am forever thankful to him, as when I feel slightly off, his words come to mind, and I concentrate on those keys) , I’ve learned that often times there is something that we can do different that will make our game just that much better, no matter how minute the change.

In essence, break down Jasnau’s suggestions, and try to figure out what’s keeping you from performing better.

What may be an excellent piece of advice for some, may not be that advantageous for others, and this much is made evident simply by watching some excellent bowlers throw the rock many different ways, while seemingly incorporating some very awkward form that is contrary to those that preach to do things “by the book”.

Do things right, but also do ONLY what feels comfortable to you.

Good luck to your continuing quest for better bowling knowledge and form.

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MC

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 09:17:30 AM »
I made some major changes to mine over the last to years. Changed from 5 step to 4, changed starting position, push away, etc. I just now am comfy with the physical change. But with the changes, I now have more revs and am now fighting how to adjust when i need to move as lanes breakdown.
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mumzie

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 11:11:15 AM »
I've made a bunch of changes to my game over the past 4 years. I'm physically very comfortable with the changes. However, I definitely question the changes I made - they feel great, but the result at the pins is less than satisfactory.
My average has gone from 220 to around 180, and my carry seriously stinks when I do find the pocket.
If you find you've made recommended changes, and are not seeing success after hard work and practice, try to go back to the "before" - because although a lot of us would really like a more attractive physical game, this game is, after all, about results. I knock down more pins than you, I win.
I fortunately have a tape from Jasnau from several years ago - the coach and I are working when we can on going back to "before" - the newer stuff is much harder to unlearn than it was to learn in the first place.
Good luck!

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sdbowler

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 11:57:29 AM »
I did not take time to read everything so I appologize if I say what somebody else already has.
It depends on what was "retooled". Also depending on how long you were doing things prior to being "retooled". It all goes back to muscle memory of everything. You have to retrain your muscles to not only do the new way but to forget about the old way. That is what takes the longest. When I was working with a coach he would work on one or two things at a time. He would have me bowl for a week or two depending on what all we did. He would then take and have me work on something else. Basicly would break it down in stages. For me and most others that seems to work the best so that it is small things to work on rather then a bunch of things.
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Moon57

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 12:09:27 PM »
I've never had a coach but it seems like some of the people in this thread and other coaching threads I have read may have had coaches who were more interested in form than what the ball was doing when it hit the pins. To me the bottom line is what is the ball doing when it hits the pins? If you have great form but don't carry what good is it? I'm not saying coaching won't help but I almost think a person has to make a long term commitment to a good coach but that coach has to be willing to work with what you've got.
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911chilli

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 12:12:18 PM »
major change this year with my release have struggled all year, until last 3 weeks have bowled over 600 series in league.
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janderson

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 12:25:38 PM »
quote:
I have read may have had coaches who were more interested in form than what the ball was doing when it hit the pins.


Just so you "hear" both sides, that has not been my experience. There are certain common components that all good bowlers share such as good balance, good timing, consistent swing, and a strong mental game to name a few. However, there is no one "right" way to achieve these things. For example, is it better to slide or plant to have good balance at the line?  Either can work. Good coaches don't preach one "right" way, but they do try to get their students to have those good components in their game.

Jorge - I forgot to ask in my previous post. Did you get the videotaped lesson from Jasnau?
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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row


Edited on 12/12/2008 1:26 PM
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dougb

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Re: Changes in your game
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2008, 12:36:45 PM »
For what it's worth, instead of trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole, my coach worked to make adjustments based on my strengths and weaknesses.  

For example, for a long time there I tended to drift 3-4 boards right on my approach. I tried to learn to walk straight and couldn't, so he advised me to move 3-4 boards left in my starting position so I ended up at the right place on the line.  Now I was hitting the pocket!

It turns out a few months later after my timing issues got better that I do walk straight, so now I adjusted back.  But without the coaching I would still be back there coming up light on the pocket.
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