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Author Topic: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you  (Read 13294 times)

trash heap

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Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« on: June 08, 2012, 10:50:48 AM »
So if you have been throwing a __________ ball for 3/4 of season in a money handicap league and you change to a ____________ ball , and your scores conisiderably increase for remaining weeks of league.  Are you breaking any USBC rules? Could someone file a complaint and prove that you are cheating?

(By changing balls, this means you have had the ball before the season starts)

1. Urethane to Reactive
2. Plastic to Reactive
3. Weak Reactive to a Strong Reactive
4. Reactive to Urethane

I am going to guess most bowlers would cry foul if someone did 1 and 2? But are they really that different from each other?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 11:46:08 AM by trash heap »
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Gunny

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 11:01:56 AM »
You can throw whatever you want.  Unless your bowling in a specified league where you can only throw one ball.  You can even take a house ball off the rack and throw it.
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milorafferty

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 11:13:14 AM »
If it was a one time thing no, but if it's a pattern? Yea, I would have a problem with that. It's could be used as just another way to abuse the handicap system.

I would welcome you to do that in my scratch leagues though.   ;D
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trash heap

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 11:47:46 AM »
Okay I made a modification to referring it as money handicap league.  Yeah do this in scractch....LOL!
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trash heap

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 12:00:28 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on June 08, 2012, 11:13:14 AM
If it was a one time thing no, but if it's a pattern? Yea, I would have a problem with that. It's could be used as just another way to abuse the handicap system.

But in the system of USBC rules and regulations, could you file a complaint and would it be upheld?
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milorafferty

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2012, 12:12:17 PM »
Good question, I have doubts but don't really know.

Personally, I'm kinda like Potter Stewart, the Supreme Court Justice who said, "I know it when I see it". He was talking about pornography of course, but I know sandbagging/cheating when I see it.    ;D

Of course, proving it is an entirely different matter, that's why I tend to bowl scratch leagues.

Quote from: trash heap on June 08, 2012, 12:00:28 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on June 08, 2012, 11:13:14 AM
If it was a one time thing no, but if it's a pattern? Yea, I would have a problem with that. It's could be used as just another way to abuse the handicap system.

But in the system of USBC rules and regulations, could you file a complaint and would it be upheld?

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hhhbs1

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 01:27:37 PM »
Technically I would say no. You can throw what ever ball you want anytime you want unless league rules state other wise. It is a free country :). In option 1 and 2 there would be ways I could have a problem with it. Lets say a good bowler you know that owns all types of equipment uses a plastic ball just to keep his avg low for the 1st half of the season then the 2nd half moves to reactive and tears it up. I would probably have an issue with it. On the other hand if there is a bowler just starting out and goes from plastic to reactive because he decides to work on his game and get better that would be fine by me. Either way he is not technically breaking any rules under usbc that I am aware of. I don't know if you can call it true sandbagging if he is not missing spares or making bad shots intentionally just the equipment he is using is keeping his scores low.
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Steven

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 01:55:13 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on June 08, 2012, 12:12:17 PM
Good question, I have doubts but don't really know.

Personally, I'm kinda like Potter Stewart, the Supreme Court Justice who said, "I know it when I see it". He was talking about pornography of course, but I know sandbagging/cheating when I see it.   ;D

Of course, proving it is an entirely different matter, that's why I tend to bowl scratch leagues.


Excellent response. I doubt you'd get very far at the USBC level, but I have seen action taken at the league level. A couple of guys who pulled this stunt were banned from the league the following season. Averaging 30-40 pins higher after the April 15 book date was just too obvious.
 
But even here, I doubt there are many league directors with the gonads needed to pull this kind of trigger.
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Stan

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2012, 02:11:07 PM »
I think it all depends on how much your average changed.  I see guys going from reactive to urethane all the time mainly because the lanes are drying up.

So how was your average impacted ?
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glssmn2001

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2012, 04:19:37 PM »
Quote from: trash heap on June 08, 2012, 10:50:48 AM
So if you have been throwing a __________ ball for 3/4 of season in a money handicap league and you change to a ____________ ball , and your scores conisiderably increase for remaining weeks of league.  Are you breaking any USBC rules? Could someone file a complaint and prove that you are cheating?

(By changing balls, this means you have had the ball before the season starts)

1. Urethane to Reactive
2. Plastic to Reactive
3. Weak Reactive to a Strong Reactive
4. Reactive to Urethane

I am going to guess most bowlers would cry foul if someone did 1 and 2? But are they really that different from each other?


 I think around here if a bowler who was known to be a real good shooter did 1 or 2 in a league that was handicapped but filled with money, I wouldn't be worried about a complaint filed with the USBC. I would be worried about the complaint that was being filed in the parking lot by some of the bowlers who just got took.

 As for filing with the USBC, they could, but I doubt anything would come of it. Has the USBC ever done anything to prevent bagging ???? We as bowlers know bagging when we see it, and blatantly using the wrong ball is a form of it. Go ahead and do what you want to do, just do not be surprised if someone decides to make it an issue, either personally or politically.
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2012, 05:26:54 PM »
I don't think USBC would do anything if a complaint was filed. 

There are so many illegal balls being thrown nowadays, what would be the difference?  I mean by illegal, based on how many balls are rejected at the weighing counter at Nationals.  Some of those balls are not brought into tolerance at Nationals so the bowlers go back home and use them in leagues.

And for me, I don't really notice what other bowlers are throwing so if they are doing that, it has been getting by me.  Do others on here really pay that close attention to what each bowler is using?  I am usually more concerned with my own game or my teammates, so I only pay attention to what lines are being used by the other team, not which balls.

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djones

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2012, 11:15:58 PM »
Does this also apply to someone who goes out and gets some topnotch coaching in the middle of the season. Or, changing balls once the league session has started to get a better reaction. Or, changing slide pads to accommodate the approaches.

Maybe we should all go back 50 years and just use one hard rubber ball.
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Steven

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2012, 11:25:27 PM »
Quote from: djones on June 08, 2012, 11:15:58 PM
Does this also apply to someone who goes out and gets some topnotch coaching in the middle of the season. Or, changing balls once the league session has started to get a better reaction. Or, changing slide pads to accommodate the approaches.

Maybe we should all go back 50 years and just use one hard rubber ball.


No, No, No, and No.....
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glssmn2001

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2012, 07:31:31 AM »
Quote from: djones on June 08, 2012, 11:15:58 PM
Does this also apply to someone who goes out and gets some topnotch coaching in the middle of the season. Or, changing balls once the league session has started to get a better reaction. Or, changing slide pads to accommodate the approaches.

Maybe we should all go back 50 years and just use one hard rubber ball.

  I do not think that is includes any of that, are you saying that since I average 245 with resin you will allow me to throw plastic for most of the season and then when my average is 210 I will switch back and take the extra 35 pin cushion on my handicap ?????
 It has nothing to do with "going back 50 years and blah blah blah," it has to do with honest competition.
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djones

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Re: Changing balls after 3/4 season is over, Could some file a complaint against you
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2012, 11:09:59 AM »
All I was doing was trying to point out that anyone can perceive that cheating is happening if someone else has an advantage. Perception is reality.

Gunny got this right.
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