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Author Topic: For other proshops in the "know" Plugging problems, cracking, heating too fast.  (Read 4361 times)

TheDude

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I have been problems lately with my plugging compund mixtures. the main issue is cracking. I am plugging balls and they are already hard within 30 to 45 minutes!

I am using DBA 3 to 1. we have checked the pumps to make sure they are correct, and they are not injecting too much air.

so far it has mostly been thumb holes giving us problems. usually we try to go two shots at once and the tops get hard and the bottoms are still producing heat.

So far we have been marking down which balls have been cracking.

mostly pearls, and usually thumbs.

we have a few theroys and have been testing them to see what we can do to solve the problem, because this is costing us alot of damns, and mix.

so far our possible ideas to what is causing it:


too much coloring, but this was disproved likely because we tried on a test ball(that was to be scrapped anyways) and no color was added and the plug was clear, it still cracked just below the surface.

we regularly were using WD-40 spray lubricant in the proshop to spray columbia 300 display rings, to use the extra mix to make more rings. our theroy there was that it was in the atmosphere of the proshop still.this was my partner's idea, but i don't believe this is the issue.

plugs that were two shots in thumbs were too deep, with the top half heating up and getting hard too fast while the bottom half was slower, heating slower and then causing the crack within the entire plug.


My own theroy was humidity as a possibity. the excessive heat and humidity( our center was having A/C Issues for a two week period, but it's over now and we still have some balls cracking


For those that are not familar with the DBA plugging system it is a ratio of three equal parts for each one part harner. it is equiped with pumps that pour out this rate exactly.

we have checked our pumps, twice. in the past when i was at a different shop,i took over for someone else and they used to use small mustard paper cups you get at restaurants, because they did not trust the accuracy of the pumps.

we have started to cover the plugs with cups to keep the heat inside, and to prevent any outside elements getting into them. also we have stopped to use what we refer to as "candies" small pieces of plug already hardned and placed into those flex ice cube trays.

so far our rate of cracking is one out of three on some days higher. we have had this problem for about 2 weeks now, nearly 3.
and we started having these problems towards the end of one plugging kit and then we ran out and switched to a new kit we ordered. so we don't think it's just this one kit, but some kind of element perhaps within the enviroment.
Normally it suggested to take 8 to even 12 hours to completely harden and cure. some pluggs are hard within 30 to 45 minutes. and some are hardening at the normal rate, and both were done at the sametime!
any ideas? i have tried calling DBA's 1-888 number but it doesn't work from canada.


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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
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thfonz98

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owner of blockbusterbowling(my ball guy) has been doing thumb plugs a half at a time(at least a couple of months ago he had to do this for me, my last ball plug)due to this...maybe send him a question to see if he has any theories/answers?

http://www.blockbusterbowling.com/contact.html
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Lane Bed

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I would have stopped using DBA a long time ago then. Other companies make stuff. Try another product and see if there is a difference.
Could be a bad batch too.

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EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr the lanE bEd


Mike Austin

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Ultimately, it is due to too much heat.  The thumb holes that you are plugging are using too much plug at one time, the volume in that large hole causes too much heat, cures too fast and cracks.

We use Ebonite Everclear and it cracks also, but our plug room is on a wall to the outside of the building.  The room stays between 75 and 80 degrees all the time.  If we are plugging a thumb hole, big plug, we try to do it as the last thing we do at night before going home, so the room will be the coolest possible.  If you can, make sure your room is cool, this will help.

Also, If you can find an ice cube tray that makes the little tiny nuggets, pour your extra plug here.  When pouring big thumb plugs, put these small plug nuggets down in the hole and pour the new plug around them.  Your volume of new plug poured at one time should be less and won't get as hot and won't crack.  This works really well.  If you can find these ice trays, stock up on them, they don't last but about 8 months to a year, wish I could find a few of them.

Your only other option is to make multiple pours, this takes longer, but the plug won't crack.  You could also put in an extra half squirt or so of compound, but you would have to experiment to see what works best for you.  Too much extra compound and the plug won't harden correctly and be too soft.

Hope this helps ya....
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Plane Facts

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I had the exact problem using DBA, when I changed to Ebonites Ever clear the problem has decreased greatly.
I'll use this as an example: Pluging a thumb hole that a 1 1/4 bit was used and drilled 2 1/2 deep to accommodate a thumb slug my procedure is as follows.

I first premix the resin and hardener according to the 3 and 1 you have described, I use a high speed dremal as a mixer tool to ensure a really through mix without air pockets assembling. Next using a very small drill bit I drill 4 pilot holes into the inside of the hole to about 1/4 deep to create bonding points or fingers if you will. As previously mentioned I also allow 48 hours to plug any thumb hole, the first half of the hole I don't use any color match at all, and on the second day I will match the color in the second application.
I also always keep an infrared heat lamp placed about 8 inches from my plug work aimed directly at the actual plug dam, this maintains an even temperature.

I tell each customer that a total ball plug is no less than 4 days.

Since I have employed the change in product and procedure I am seeing extreme marked changes and far less returned balls.

I also keep the heat lamp affixed on the containers of resin and hardener at all times, this also maintains a consistent temperature which is usually around 75 degrees.

Don't know if this makes any difference but I use a baxter plug cutter to remove the set plug, then wet sand on ball spinner to fine tune the finished work using 1000 grit.

Really hope this offers some help.
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drillbit

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I use DBA 321 Ultima, and have had very few problems like this, maybe 1 in 10. When it does happen, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. The last time I had one harden early, it was the middle one of a batch of 3 I was plugging, and it was the smallest hole of the lot. Then again, sometimes I have the opposite problem, the stuff won't cure in a normal length of time(4 days to cure last time, but the other two balls came out just fine), and again, it doesn't seem to happen for any particular reason.
 I doubt my problems were heat-related, as my shop is between 65-75 degrees year-round. I think it's just the nature of ball plug to do this. Every shop owner I've talked to has had this happen occasionally, no matter what brand used(DBA, Tech-Line(sp?), Ebonite, etc.).
 The only brand I've had that didn't crack was the 1-hour cure stuff from Wizard, but that stuff had other issues(piss-poor colour-matching, and very soft when cured).

drillbit

tenpinspro

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Hey TheDude,

Used DBA for about 10 yrs and only happens during summer or when the shop gets real warm.  Real easy, you can pour it twice but it'll take longer to plug the hole or just add more compound.  As Mike stated, it's usually the larger volume holes (1 1/4 slug) that create this problem.  

First do your normal pumps(1 comp, 1 hard), now add about 1/4 to 1/3 of more compound to the mix.  That should help slow down the hardening process and help eliminate the cracking.  If the room is real hot, I add almost a full compound sometimes to a 2 plug mixture.  You just need to play with it a couple of times to see how much more compound you need to add in your shop.  Trust me, it works.  Had to do this sometimes back even 20 yrs ago...no biggie.
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TheDude

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I as well use a baxter plug cutter. and i already use all the applications you use as well, going two shots for thumbs. i guess i will just have to be more patient now.

I was becoming concerned because it kept happening constantly, and no one had any solid answers, just ideas as to the reason. ok well from the response from posting for just 12 hours i can see i am not alone, and DBA seems to be very popular. the problem with switching to another brand( and yes i have tried samples of the wizard insta-cure type product) is that both of my distributors only carry DBA, if i request any other brand it will be special order taking more time.

but seriously if you have never tried it, take a small plastic drink cup and place it over your plug it seems to help greatly too. also prevents and curious people from coming in and poking the plugs.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Keep them honest!

Ebay store updated very often: http://stores.ebay.com/gumby3170?refid+store

clovismaul

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I switch to Lane Concepts One Step Clear Premium.I'm able to pour a 1 3/8 hole 2 5/8 deep in one pop.I stir for 2 minutes let it set for 30 minutes in the cup,it lets all the heat and air bubbles come to the surface.I pur the hole and pour the extra in the grey Columbia ball ring (sprayed with WD-40) and charge $4.95 for each ring.I used all the other ball plug Lane Concepts is the best.

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DP3

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I think we've tried DBA before and never really had problems unless someone stirred the mix too long.  How long are you stirring for?  We found that a 2 minute stir was more than enough, and with a hand beveled edge on the holes that the cracking problems ceased.  I think we use Ebonite Everclear now.
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Ric Clint

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quote:
Next using a very small drill bit I drill 4 pilot holes into the inside of the hole to about 1/4 deep to create bonding points or fingers if you will.


Isn't this a similar method as taking a round rasp and going around the inside of the hole to be plugged and making it "rough" so that the plug will bond and gel in the little tiny grooves that the Rasp made?

Anybody else do this round rasp method?





JohnP

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Ric -- Yes, I normally rough up the inside of the hole before pouring the plug.  Sometimes with a rasp, others with 100 grit sandpaper.  --  JohnP