win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Cheating  (Read 2689 times)

Debina

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
Cheating
« on: June 19, 2004, 08:34:05 PM »
Those of you who have checked my profile know I've only been bowling for a bit more than two years. That said, I'm continuing to learn every day.

The one thing I've learned lately has been a most disturbing lesson. People cheat. It's a harsh reality that I have trouble accepting.

Cases in point ...

I volunteered at our ABC state tournament three of the four weekends in May.
 - First weekend, guy throw his strike shot and ends up with a 7-9 split. He turns around and immediately states loudly, "The 10 pin was missing from the rack." No one argues with him, and the rack is reset so he can throw his strike instead of working the split. Doesn't the rulebook state that it's the bowler's responsibility to insure a full rack BEFORE delivering the ball?
 - Next weekend, I'm getting scores for brackets when I see a guy slip a scotchbrite pad inside his buff-a-ball, pick up his ball off the rack and proceed to spin it vigorously in the buff-a-ball. Sure enough, third frame of the next game, he takes his altered surface ball out of the buff-a-ball and starts using it again. He was called on it and claimed not to know the rule about altering surfaces during play.
 - Same weekend, guy throws what he thinks is a strike, but a pin bounces off the curtain and stands back up on the lane. He tells me he needs a ruling, explains what happened and wants me to change the 9 count to a strike. I tell him the pin's standing, so it's a 9 count. He asks to speak to a tournament official. Although I'm standing there with a big blue badge that says "Tournament Official," I realize that I'm just a girl, so I go find the tournament director who backs up my ruling.

Then in league last week ...

I'm in the 10th frame of the last game. We're being beaten soundly by the top team in the league. No big deal. I throw the first ball, the 7 falls late but before the rack drops. The computer scores a strike, and a guy from the other team jumps up and says I need to get the 7 reset because the computer scored it wrong. Fortunately, his teammate was on the approach at the time and confirmed that the pin fell legally. Next ball, I cross over and the 2 pin falls late. Same thing happens. This time my teammate tells him the fall was legal. Gah! This guy was looking for any reason to not allow our marks, even though they were +138 in the 10th. May not actually be a case of cheating here, but it's still smarmy.

Anyway, I'm just amazed at the ways people will try to break, bend, circumnavigate or completely ignore the rules to try to gain advantage in this game.

Deb

 

Debina

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
Re: Cheating
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2004, 01:55:50 PM »
Nope, I don't spend much time in caves. I guess I just hope for better from the people I associate with in this game. For me, cheating just isn't an option. I'm trying to improve. If I cheat, I'm not really doing anything to improve. Who knows, maybe trying to give myself a break in a tournament will be a more attractive option when I get to the point where I'm more than just a prize fund donator, but I sure hope that isn't the case.

As far as acetone goes, bring-your-A-game, I'm pretty sure it's on the ABC/WIBC "Not Acceptable at Any Time" list. That said, it's interesting that there seems to be an industrial-size container of acetone in every pro shop work room I've visited so far. Go figure.

You've all made good points. Maybe the real answer is for all of us to become more familiar with the rules of the game. Might also help if the rules weren't quite so fuzzy in some cases, and the rule makers took some care to not have two rules that are pretty much in direct opposition to each other. I find it interesting that rule 7a states that it's the player's responsibility to determine a setup is correct before delivering the ball; and rule 8a says that a dead ball is called if after a delivery attention is immediately called to the fact that one or more pins were missing from the setup.

Apparently I have way too much time on my hands today. Must find something to do before heading out for league tonight.

Have a great day! And happy Father's Day to those of you who wear the title!

Deb

JohnP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5819
Re: Cheating
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2004, 04:03:14 PM »
Deb -- Regarding the presence of acetone in pro shops.  Acetone is the only thing I know of that will take superglue off a ball.  When you install thumb inserts and finger grips, you almost always get a little superglue on the ball.  It looks very unprofessional to return a ball with smears of superglue to the customer .  The rule that makes acetone illegal was intended to prevent the "soaking" that went on back in the 70's to soften the coverstock and improve the ball's hooking power.  Using it to remove glue does not violate the purpose of the rule, although it is technically illegal.  --  JohnP

T Brockette

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2981
Re: Cheating
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2004, 04:45:46 PM »
The only thing you can hope for is that it catches
up with them in the end. Unfortunately, most the
time it doesn't. Thanks for the fathers day
mention though.
--------------------
Tracy
If you want to play, train your body.
If you want to win, train your heart.
Tracy Brockette – Lone Star House Hack

mumzie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6914
Re: Cheating
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2004, 05:21:34 PM »
I personally think that if someone cheats, the bowling gods will find that person and deliver a slammed 7-10 after the front 9, or other 5-7-10 in front of their significant other (or favored opponent), or other acts of justice.

Maybe not that game, maybe not even that set. But some day, some where, those gods will get even!!!
--------------------
Ability is what you're capable of doing.
Motivation determines what you do.
Attitude determines how well you do it.
 - Lou Holtz
------------------------
www.Shirts4Bowling.com
We Know What Bowlers Want

Home of the HAMBONE shirt!

LuvThatWhiteDot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3025
Re: Cheating
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2004, 06:15:04 PM »
quote:
The one thing I've learned lately has been a most disturbing lesson. People cheat. It's a harsh reality that I have trouble accepting.

Anyway, I'm just amazed at the ways people will try to break, bend, circumnavigate or completely ignore the rules to try to gain advantage in this game.
Deb


And people who post here wonder why bowlers quit in DROVES.
--------------------
White Dot
Raising kids is like trying to nail Jell-o to a tree.
http://faldo.atmos.uiuc.edu/FBL/mkting.html


AZHammerhead

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Cheating
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2004, 02:01:20 AM »
AMEN bowlerXXL.... couldn't agree more... sandbagging is cheating in the worst way... case in point... I bowled in a No-tap tourney yesterday.... yeah yeah... I know... No-tap isn't really bowling... I just look at it as a way to get some competitive competition under my belt so I can get better.  I rolled an 855 scratch for 3 games and finished in 3rd purely because of a guy who bagged and got his ABC card with a low average... sure enough... he shoots 812 and takes home most of the money - prize money and side pots because he has a good size handicap... sure hope he can sleep at night... I couldn't do it... if you can't be honest with yourself... you will never be honest with anyone!

Debina

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
Re: Cheating
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2004, 12:27:27 PM »
quote:
I've never seen cheating like that but I see the most common cheating pratice in bowling today, SANDBAGGING!!!!!


Ya know, I was going to go there, but I thought my post was getting just a tad on the long side. Since you brought it up though, here goes ...

I entered an invitational a few weeks ago. Because of the average rule, I had to enter Division 4 for averages 139 and below. My last year's book was 135, but I've bowled consistently around 150 for the past year. Anyway, I felt a bit guilty about being entered in that division, but as the association secretary said, that's the rule, just be happy for the possible advantage. So, I bowl all 9 games in one day because that was the only way to fit it in my schedule. I end up with a 1409 all events, a 156 average. I'm happy with my performance, but I feel badly about people like my doubles partner who averages 111.

Standings came out last week, and I placed 3rd all events handicapped and 2nd all events scratch in the division. What astonished me was that the woman who placed first had an all events total of 1646! I sure hope she was just having the tournament of her life that weekend! But, it does kinda make one wonder.

Before someone makes the statement, no, this isn't sour grapes. I'm truly pleased with my performance, and I know I bowled at my current ability level. I just hear so much here and on other boards about people who maintain a low book average to have an advantage in tournaments, that I wonder if I've finally seen it in action.

Have a good day!

Deb

dicnic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 953
Re: Cheating
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2004, 08:51:15 PM »
Deb, unfortunately, the cheating is not confined to bowling, or even golf as 'Bones said but is rampant throught today's society. Cheating (let's simply call it dishonesty) infiltrates today's lifestyle. What about the CEO's that steal millions from their companies? How many of you know of employees that cheat on their company expense accounts? Or steal from the companies stockroom?

My daughter-in-law told me yesterday that the office manager of the company she works for (a small battery firm in MD) was stealing stock and selling it on ebay. She took the company for over $50K before she was found out. Got fired but not prosecuted, for some reason.

What about shoplifting? Even rich media stars do it. And on and on it goes.

A little cheating (and a lot of it is ignorance of the bowling rules) just makes those of us who try to participate according to the rules get angry. What about the league treasurers who steal the prize fund?

About all we can do is to attempt to correct those unenlightened souls and hope for the best. Don't get yourself beat up in the parking lot by some jerk who refuses to obey the rules. It ain't worth it.
--------------------
What's with the Braille on a drive-up-ATM?
Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
<font color=red><h4>Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night. </h4></font id=red>

agroves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4939
Re: Cheating
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2004, 09:18:05 PM »
quote:
She took the company for over $50K before she was found out. Got fired but not prosecuted, for some reason.


Probably b/c she had dirt on every other CEO.

andrew
--------------------
FUFU
If you're an idiot, you can join my ignore list

Walking E

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Cheating
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2004, 09:21:33 PM »
Question about sandbagging:

Obviously, someone who is capable of average 200 and is instead averaging 150 and cleaning up in sweeps and tournaments is the type of sandbagger that we'd all like to tie up on a rack and beat to death after they've taken our money.

But what are your feelings about a guy who is a good bowler bowling on an easy condition, averaging 230+ when he knows he's really only a 200 bowler anywhere else. This guy knows he will be saddled with a 230 average if he keeps it up and that this average will cripple him at state tournament or any situation where book averages are used (such as an average cap in a scratch league in another house). What about a guy like that starting to shoot 550s on a dead easy condition? Sandbagging, yes, but to what degree? Is this as bad as the other situation described above?

I know that bowlers like to describe the first situation as sandbagging, but the second situation as "average control".

Is there a difference? I'm just curious about everyone's thoughts.
--------------------
You weren't unlucky when you left that corner pin, so shut up about it already!!

Edited on 6/21/2004 9:40 PM

300GameBowler

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Cheating
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2004, 09:29:23 PM »
i sandbag....every week

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6759
Re: Cheating
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2004, 02:58:35 AM »
quote:
Question about sandbagging:

Obviously, someone who is capable of average 200 and is instead averaging 150 and cleaning up in sweeps and tournaments is the type of sandbagger that we'd all like to tie up on a rack and beat to death after they've taken our money.

But what are your feelings about a guy who is a good bowler bowling on an easy condition, averaging 230+ when he knows he's really only a 200 bowler anywhere else. This guy knows he will be saddled with a 230 average if he keeps it up and that this average will cripple him at state tournament or any situation where book averages are used (such as an average cap in a scratch league in another house). What about a guy like that starting to shoot 550s on a dead easy condition? Sandbagging, yes, but to what degree? Is this as bad as the other situation described above?

I know that bowlers like to describe the first situation as sandbagging, but the second situation as "average control".

Is there a difference? I'm just curious about everyone's thoughts.
--------------------
You weren't unlucky when you left that corner pin, so shut up about it already!!

Edited on 6/21/2004 9:40 PM


I'm sorry, but if you shoot below your ability, it's sandbagging.  Average management is sandbagging.  If your normal house is a dead easy THS, there's nothing wrong with choosing not to bowl there.  I'm not advocating finding a dungeon to establish an average.  But, if you're stuck in tweener hell (not quite good enough to hang with the big boys, not enough hadicap to have a prayer in handicap), don't bowl in the easiest house in the county.  I could drive 45 minutes to raise my average 10-15 sticks and maybe pick up a few award scores, but I would never have a chance in tournaments.  Not that I do now *.

*  See Tweener hell, above.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive

baltimora

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
Re: Cheating
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2004, 10:34:00 PM »
forgive me for saying but why sandbag? maybe it is because i am not a good bowler but i put my heart and soul into every game i bowl. if i could i would shoot a 300 every time (i know that sounds silly but you get what i mean). if you sandbag (average management?!) or cheat outright how can you feel good about your alleged wins. maybe i am off track but i don't feel right keeping change if they give me too much back in store so why would i be ok winning when i know i really didn't? just me i guess.

Borincano

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1181
Re: Cheating
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2004, 12:16:37 AM »
Deb here is more from way back then.

The mercury balls.

The no plug rule was a result of a ball or two that leaked Mercury on impact at the pins! It was practice session day July 25th 1975,I was drilling balls in my bus when Len Nicholson came out to the bus and said "Litch you got to come in and see this".We walk down lane one to the pin deck,Mercury beeds all over the deck,and on lane two, three, four, and the whole house. We tell Harry Golden, he tells Joe Antenora,the commishioner. Antenora tells us to buy a metal detector at Radio Shack,we do exactly that! The next morning at three AM we go to the locker room and proceed to test all the balls! Well let me tell you pilgrem,the thing was beeping non stop! At least 20 balls set it off. When we reported the results to Harry that morning,the first thing he said was,to NEVER TELL AS TO WHAT PLAYERS BALLS SET OFF THE DETECTOR. IF we did we would loose our job! I never have and I know Len never has! That fall the plug rule came into effect! My pay check trippled ,the comp program came into effect and the rest is history!