Author Topic: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened? (Read 5284 times)

boomtown24 · « **on:** February 02, 2009, 04:53:41 AM »

Johnny Miller introduced this term to the airwaves and immediately it was met with harsh criticism. He uses the term choke on almost every telecast. Why do people view the term in such a negative light?

On these boards there are subjects all the time about people choking, why are they met with such defiance?

Do we always have to say "he didn't handle the situation very well?"

Is there a better term to use?

I'd like to pick everyone's mind.

lorevs · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2009, 01:03:26 PM »

I refrain from using the choke word myself. It won't endear you to anyone and you could come off as a jerk.

If one has ever bowled in money matches, they know that under pressure they have certain tendencies. In my day, when it came time to perform, I knew that my tendency was to be a little soft with the shot. This was my recognizable choke shot. Armed with that information, it is easier to avoid the tendency.

I remember reading articles on this subject many years ago.

What do you normally do when under the gun? Answer that and you are on the way to being stronger in the clutch.

Zef Olantar · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2009, 01:18:05 PM »

I agree! Some people thrive on being in the limelight and some fold like the cheap suits they wear......like I always say...."It's hard to throw the ball when both your hands are placed firmly around your neck!"....

If nerves get to you in the crunch, there's nothing wrong with admitting it.....that's how you learn to deal with it the next time around!

--------------------
George Pichl
PRO SHOP 300
Winnipeg, Manitoba
CANADA

Kid Jete · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2009, 01:28:36 PM »

It's just an ignorant thing to say and most people that say it have no business doing so. So many armchair quarterbacks are quick to blurt out a professional choked when they have no idea what is going on. If you just lost a big promotion at work because of a bonehead move on your part and someone came up to you and said "man you really dumbassed that one up" you'd be pissed. What I'm getting at is that there is a lot of better ways to say someone didn't quite perform up to par without sounding like a dick.

Zef Olantar · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2009, 01:41:44 PM »

Perhaps, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade! Speaking the truth should never be wrong although, I agree, sometimes there can be better ways of expressing ones opinions.

I've been fortunate to have attained success in a few big tournaments where I've had to throw a double in the 10th frame to win the $2500 top prize, but have also lost in the semi-finals in another tournament where I lost my concentration and focus and wasn't able to get the job done. I learned from that and have not made the same mistake again. That's the key.....if you learn from your mistakes, you'll be better for it.

In the end, win or lose, all you want is to execute and throw a quality shot.
That, to me is....SUCCESS! At that point, at least you performed!!!

--------------------
George Pichl
PRO SHOP 300
Winnipeg, Manitoba
CANADA

JessN16 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2009, 02:14:49 PM »

kidjete,

Before I start with this, I want to say I'm not trying to be mean or pick a fight with you. However, your post affords me the opportunity to address specifically what is wrong about people calling others out when they use the word "choke" or any synonym for it:

---

quote:
It's just an ignorant thing to say and most people that say it have no business doing so.

Actually, the Constitution gives anyone the right to do that, for starters. For further explanation, see my next cut/copy:

quote:
So many armchair quarterbacks are quick to blurt out a professional choked when they have no idea what is going on.

If it's clear the fault was on the bowler, that's all it can be. It is not a choke to do what Mallott or DeVaney have done the last couple of years (i.e., pure it and leave a smash 10-pin when they needed a strike). But tossing it in the gutter, grabbing it to count 4, whiffing a single-pin spare -- that's operator error. There can't be anything else "going on" in that situation that is relevant.

quote:
If you just lost a big promotion at work because of a bonehead move on your part and someone came up to you and said "man you really dumbassed that one up" you'd be pissed.

Perhaps, but it would be the truth. The truth doesn't care who gets pissed off. Truth is truth and feelings are irrelevant in the face of it.

quote:

What I'm getting at is that there is a lot of better ways to say someone didn't quite perform up to par without sounding like a dick.

That may be the case but if the discussion is about buckling under the pressure, according to some, you can't have that discussion whether you use the word "choke" or not unless you've "been there." And that's a concept that is nothing more than a pile of horsefeathers.

There are a couple of things in play here. One, all legitimate sports have fans, and fans argue, discuss and dissect the sports they love. "Choking" is a topic for discussion in the NFL, NBA, college football, golf, etc., all the big-boy sports. If bowling's fans want bowling to be a big-boy sport and play for big-boy money, they need to get accustomed to having big-boy discussions -- including harsh criticism -- about it and its players. I see some people on this board who apparently think pro bowlers are too emotionally fragile to stand up to the shots.

Secondly, the idea that "you have to have been there" to have an opinion on something is one of the most ignorant opinions a person can hold. Few of us have ever been elected officials, but we're all put in charge of electing our leaders. We can have an opinion on NASA without ever having flown into space. We can talk about how whether we love Ford, Chevy or Dodge the most at NASCAR tracks, and few of us are race car drivers, race car builders or even car builders in general. I'll carry an opinion on any subject I like.

Back to the central discussion, however -- "choking" -- I think it's actually one of the most common threads we all have. We've all been under pressure before. I would posit that we've all "choked" on something before, whether it was bowling or not asking a pretty girl out on a date in high school. People who don't want that particular subject to be discussed aren't being realistic.

Jess

tuckingfenpin · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2009, 02:24:49 PM »

Jess just rocked this topic in the face.
--------------------
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.

jls · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2009, 02:37:33 PM »

quote:
I refrain from using the choke word myself. It won't endear you to anyone and you could come off as a jerk.

If one has ever bowled in money matches, they know that under pressure they have certain tendencies. In my day, when it came time to perform, I knew that my tendency was to be a little soft with the shot. This was my recognizable choke shot. Armed with that information, it is easier to avoid the tendency.

I remember reading articles on this subject many years ago.

What do you normally do when under the gun? Answer that and you are on the way to being stronger in the clutch.

So your saying Johnny Miller, the best at what he does in golf on TV, is a jerk for telling it the way it is.

I don't think so Tim.
--------------------
jls

Hogsharley · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2009, 04:35:16 PM »

quote:
Choke

To commit errors while shooting, especially at the money ball, due to pressure.

Cut and paste from Wikipedia.com^^^^

quote:
choke

To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension, especially in an athletic contest: choked by missing an easy putt on the final hole.

Cut and paste from Dictionary.com^^^^

It's either "he choked" or "he failed miserably". Pick one and let's move on.
--------------------
3 holes of fun!!

nextbowler · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2009, 06:55:20 PM »

A better, more apt description, that I have seen in professional literature,
is "social presence". It is when the conditions of the current situation
overwhelm the ability to make a quality reaction. Almost everyone has
their level of interferred performance. However, all failures to perform
are not caused by social presence. Many times, observed by professionals
it is lack of focus or concentration--hence Rhino Page.

JessN16 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2009, 10:35:21 PM »

quote:
If only it was as simple as Jess wants it to be. The greatest bowler in the world by number of titles won and money won leaves an 8-10 split on a pocket hit, he falls to the floor in amazement, Patrick Allen walks around in disbelief, yet many idiots claim Walter Ray choked. Kidjete is right, people who don't do it for a living DO NOT have the right to judge. Sure, this is the United States of America and the Constitution says you can say anything you want (what's next, your dad can beat up my dad?) but just cuz you can say it doesn't mean you should say it or you are correct. Really tired of the holier-than-thou attitude of a lot of people when it comes to this. Tell ya what, you critics quit your day job, leave your family for weeks at a time, live out of a suitcase, battle the conditions, and then show us how well you do. By the way, I would fully expect you all to turn to the camera and say "Man, I choked" when you leave a ringing ten pin on a pocket hit. But we all know talk is cheap, especially when typing behind a computer screen. How many of you brave guys would walk up to Rhino Page, Wes Mallot, or Chris Barnes and tell him to their face they choked? If you can do that, well, post away. If not, then STFU about it!

Find where I said Walter Ray Williams Jr. choked on the 8-10 leave if you can. You won't because I never said it.

As for "not having the right to judge," OK, let's follow down that road. You are hereby prohibited from ever talking about the job anyone does that is not in your current professional field.

If that sounds ridiculous to you, it should -- because it is. And it's the same logic that you're trying to force on other people in regards to professional bowling.

By the way, I'll "STFU" when I feel like it. Not when you tell me to. I know it may be hard for you to get over it but I'm sure you'll find a way.

Jess

JessN16 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2009, 09:25:51 PM »

quote:
Wow Jess, you are a tough guy! Whew. So tell me boy, you got the guts to go up to a touring pro in a scenario that I described and tell him he choked? Of course you don't. Hilarious. You try to come off so intellectual in your posts but when you're called out you don't answer the question and get your panties in a bunch. Lame.

First of all, I don't have to answer jack to you.

Secondly, if you want to get in a pissing contest, I hope you have a king-sized bladder. Because I'll just start finding the posts that piss you off and sending the threads back to the top of the board with "ttt" every day for a couple of weeks every now and then. And then these opinions you hate so much are just going to stay and stay and stay.

I'm not here to cause trouble but ultimately, my conduct is governed by the site administrator here and not some anonymous person who wants to control other people's conversations.

Keep this thread going as long as you feel like. I've given you the relevant opinion on the topic but if you want to keep giving it exposure, keep posting. Your choice.

Jess

Hogsharley · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2009, 09:46:21 PM »

quote:
So tell me boy, you got the guts to go up to a touring pro in a scenario that I described and tell him he choked? .

Just because I won't go up to a "touring pro" and tell him that he choked has no weight in your argument.

Ex #1 Touring pro goes and tanks it with the game on the line in the championship match. No. I would probably not tell him that he choked to his face.

Ex #2 Touring pro who's my very good friend goes and tanks it with the game on the line in the championship match. Yes. I would tell him he choked to his face.

They both choked the same exact way.

Oh yeah...

TTT
--------------------
3 holes of fun!!

Gazoo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2009, 06:21:18 AM »

Choking is a term used by people who fail under pressure to describe those they feel are like themselves to make them feel better about themselves. The only person who would know if they "fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension" would be the person trying to perform the task. Everything else would be nothing but assumption, and when you assume, you make and A## out of U and Me. A better term would be "Failed to Produce"
--------------------
"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

boomtown24 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2009, 09:29:09 AM »

"Failed to Produce" = CHOKE

Is it the term choke that bothers everyone?

CRD, if you went up to the guy and said "man you failed to produce" would that be any better? We have announcers that are paid to describe the action and sports writers that are paid to report on it, are they able to use "choke?" What if they have never played the game?

BTW JESS, I thought your first post was great. IMO

Author Topic: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened? (Read 5284 times)

boomtown24

CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

lorevs

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

Zef Olantar

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

Kid Jete

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

Zef Olantar

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

JessN16

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

tuckingfenpin

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

jls

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

Hogsharley

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

nextbowler

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

JessN16

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

JessN16

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

Hogsharley

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

Gazoo

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?

boomtown24

Re: CHOKING... a personal attack or a description of what happened?