Author Topic: Clearing the thumbhole (Read 5795 times)

Dan Belcher · « **on:** July 11, 2008, 12:10:46 AM »

Looking for some different opinions on a couple issues. I'm always in search of a better feel from my equipment, as I'm very picky about my thumbhole feeling good, but I never can seem to get the right feel. And since I have to wear a wrist support to get anything on the ball, it limits the range of motion my wrist has at the release point, which can make it even more difficult to get the thumb out quickly and cleanly. (And yes, I've tried throwing it without a wrist support, my wrists are just too damn weak to support the weight of the ball enough to keep my fingers under it and create lift. My arms are more than strong enough, but my wrists are very weak and thin, just like everyone else in my family. Damn genetics)

1) I have a nasty habit of turning my hand too early at the bottom of the swing, which ends up turning my whole arm basically and puts my elbow around the side of the ball. Needless to say, it's difficult to get the ball to tumble and roll early since I'm getting more axis rotation than I'd like sometimes, and it tends to make me set the ball down further away from my sliding foot than I'd like. However, whenever I focus on keeping my hand under the ball more and not coming around it with my elbow, I have trouble getting my thumb out of the ball. It either is too tight and sticks, or after taking just one piece of tape out, the ball feels like it's falling off my hand. Is it possible my ball fit is just not right for staying up the back of the ball while wearing a wrist support, or am I just not used to releasing the ball like this and doing something wrong? Unfortunately I don't have any video of my release when trying to stay under the ball, but later tonight after I get off work I can post video of my usual release.

2) I experimented yesterday with a ball that needed the thumb redone on it anyway (defective Turbo switchgrip outer sleeve, I can't wait to try the Vise interchangeable thumbs that are on the way to my ball driller's pro shop right now!). I have an old school type of fit, the hand is a little stretched not bad, but definately not the currently popular relaxed grip. My pitches are 1/4" reverse, 3/8" lateral away. I tried slugging the thumb and using the same span and still 1/4" reverse, but only 1/8" lateral away, and the ball felt awful. The thumbhole was actually too big and I had to put tape in it, but even when the hole itself was loose, I could not get my thumb out of it to save my life. My hand felt very stretched like the span was too long. We measured it and the span was basically identical to my other balls. The only difference really is the pitch, and maybe the bevel. Could the lateral pitch make that big of a difference in feel? Do I need to shorten the span to accomodate? Or would more bevel (which is always a tricky issue, too much bevel makes me drop the ball) help me get my thumb out of the ball more quickly but still let me hold onto it easily in my backswing without gripping it?

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2008, 08:48:53 AM »

I actually always blow a puff of air into my thumbhole. I use the blue Vise Hada patch on the back of my thumb, and use only black tape to tweak my fit in the thumbhole depending on how swollen or small my thumb is that day.

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:06:33 AM »

quote:
... my wrists are just too damn weak to support the weight of the ball enough to keep my fingers under it and create lift. My arms are more than strong enough, but my wrists are very weak and thin, just like everyone else in my family. Damn genetics)

It's not something to worry about. What is is and that's it. Wear the wrister and be done with it.

quote:

1) I have a nasty habit of turning my hand too early at the bottom of the swing, which ends up turning my whole arm basically and puts my elbow around the side of the ball. Needless to say, it's difficult to get the ball to tumble and roll early since I'm getting more axis rotation than I'd like sometimes, and it tends to make me set the ball down further away from my sliding foot than I'd like. However, whenever I focus on keeping my hand under the ball more and not coming around it with my elbow, I have trouble getting my thumb out of the ball. It either is too tight and sticks, or after taking just one piece of tape out, the ball feels like it's falling off my hand. Is it possible my ball fit is just not right for staying up the back of the ball while wearing a wrist support, or am I just not used to releasing the ball like this and doing something wrong? Unfortunately I don't have any video of my release when trying to stay under the ball, but later tonight after I get off work I can post video of my usual release.

Been there, done that. Yes, you can use/need different thumb sizes for different releases. Personally I have found I need a very tight thumb hole (I mean literally I have to almost force my thumb into that hole) when I want to stay behind and under the ball. When I want/need to have my fingers on the side of the ball, I can live with and use a SLIGHTLY looser thumb hole.

As for turning the ball too early, that must stop. No 2 ways about it - it affects the ball's roll and its reaction. I guarantee that, from experience.
As for staying behind the ball being accompanied by a bad thumb exit, it might be the size of the hole, the angle of the oval of the thumb or the pitch or the span OR you just think too much, about too many things at the same time.

Think about staying behind the ball and about your thumb exit and the other basics needed in your delivery, then you'll lose sight of your target almost every time. Yo can't have all those thigns on your mind at the same time. You have to use practice to make them a part of your delivery and think of only one or two things during your delivery and one of those better be the target.

quote:

2) I experimented yesterday with a ball that needed the thumb redone on it anyway (defective Turbo switchgrip outer sleeve, I can't wait to try the Vise interchangeable thumbs that are on the way to my ball driller's pro shop right now!). I have an old school type of fit, the hand is a little stretched not bad, but definately not the currently popular relaxed grip. My pitches are 1/4" reverse, 3/8" lateral away. I tried slugging the thumb and using the same span and still 1/4" reverse, but only 1/8" lateral away, and the ball felt awful. The thumbhole was actually too big and I had to put tape in it, but even when the hole itself was loose, I could not get my thumb out of it to save my life. My hand felt very stretched like the span was too long. We measured it and the span was basically identical to my other balls. The only difference really is the pitch, and maybe the bevel. Could the lateral pitch make that big of a difference in feel? Do I need to shorten the span to accomodate? Or would more bevel (which is always a tricky issue, too much bevel makes me drop the ball) help me get my thumb out of the ball more quickly but still let me hold onto it easily in my backswing without gripping it?

Unless you're changing some basics to get a different release for a special ball, your left or right pitch is fixed by the bone shape, muscles, ligaments and tendons of your thumb and the way it's attached to your hand. It's either 3/8" or 1/8". You might live with the wrong one, but it will never get truly comfortable. I know, I tried to use 0"x0" (reverse/forward x left/right). I tried to force it and it always felt - "not right". I left the 0" reverse and went back to my original 1/4" left/away from palm.

Bevel is a separate issue. Too much bevel makes the span feel short too little makes the thumb hole feel tight and the grip stretched. This is one thing where you should have the driller leave the hole as it's drilled and you bring sandpaper with you to practice and work the hole as necessary. It will never feel right until you get it right.

The reverse/forward PLUS the left/right must match the thumb hole size and its oval angle (most people's thumb are oval, once they're put into the hole and gripping the ball.) and the span. These are all sensitive issues and interrelated.

I wonder if your thumb's span, hole and pitches are all at the right settings for you, given all the trouble you seem to be having and the fact that you took the time to write all this. Maybe you and your driller should start from scratch, as if you walked in off the streets. Remove all assumptions about which of these factors is correct and which need to changed. Or maybe you need a new driller? I can't say from here.

Good luck.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

Gazoo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:06:57 AM »

Can work wonders with thumb issues.

http://www.bowl4fun.com/magiccarpet/magiccarpet.htm

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:23:31 AM »

I tried the Magic Carpet and used it a couple times. I just couldn't get along with it. I felt like I was hanging in the ball, so I took out a piece of tape I had under it and suddenly it's falling off in my backswing (literally, I had to catch the ball to keep it from falling off my hand)

Jeff, it looks like you had the same idea I did -- completely start from scratch on the grip. The reason I tried 1/8" lateral instead of 3/8" is because I thought it might help me feel like I was locked in the ball a little better, but I would still be able to get out of it quickly. My ball driller also noted that 3/8" is a lot of lateral away, more than most people he drills for.

leftyinsnellville · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:33:32 AM »

I, too, have skinny weak wrists and used a brace for several years. I recently took some lessons from a Gold certified coach and decided I just couldn't achieve my goals if I continued to wear a brace. I also dispensed with the tape I was wearing on my fingers and the back of my thumb.

Although it took a lot of practice and a while to get used to, I am now able to throw a fairly good hook without the brace. I did have to settle with not having as much "hand" as I would like, but what I've gained in versatility more than make up for it. Without the brace I can make subtle adjustments to my wrist position which gives me several different options when conditions are difficult or changing.

Most importantly (and to finally address your question) my thumb comes out of the ball much cleaner even though my thumbhole(s) are significantly tighter than I used to have them when I threw with a brace.

Toss the brace, study the mechanics of bowling, take some lessons (if necessary) and you'll be a much better bowler in the long run. Plus you'll be able to get your equipment properly fitted because of your new found ability to get the ball out of your hand much cleaner.

In the event your stubborn, like me, and don't want to get rid of the brace, I'd suggest going with switchgrip thumbholes. With the switchgrip you can have several different size thumbholes and can change them as your thumb swells or shrinks, and if you can finally get a thumbhole you're happy with, you'll be able to have it in every ball you own.

Good Luck!
--------------------
(formerly leftyinhawaii)

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:46:24 AM »

quote:
In the event your stubborn, like me, and don't want to get rid of the brace, I'd suggest going with switchgrip thumbholes. With the switchgrip you can have several different size thumbholes and can change them as your thumb swells or shrinks, and if you can finally get a thumbhole you're happy with, you'll be able to have it in every ball you own.

Already on top of that idea! I already have the Turbo switchgrips actually, but am frustrated with their quality control. (I've had the inner sleeve stick in a couple of outer sleeves and have to use a chisel just to get it out basically, had another inner sleeve just plain fall out of a ball in the back of the lane just two weeks after it was drilled). I'm going to try Vise's new interchangeable thumbs soon.

The problem with the wrist brace deal -- I tried to bowl without one for YEARS. I finally gave up after I just wasn't getting any better or even stronger and started using a brace like my dad and my mom both. My dad is in great shape, strong as an ox, lifts heavy equipment and swings a sledgehammer and so forth at work all the time (he works for a railroad), and even with all that he still has tiny, weak wrists just like me and has to wear a wrist brace to keep his hand under the ball. It just runs in the family.

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:46:35 AM »

Dan,

Addition: I recently tried Valentino's Franken Tape. It's black tape intended for use in the back of the thumb hole only. It's to help you exit cleaner. it is very slippery and well designed for its purpose: a clean release.

I put one piece in the back of the thumb hole and even though I use tape on the back of my thumb (Vise grip Hada Patch blue or red), the Frankenn tape made my thumb exit so fast and clean that I had to add another piece of white tape to the front of the thumb hole. I now use a piece of Franken Tape in all my balls.

http://www.valentinobowling.com/franken_tape.html

This is the fastest release Vise-Grip Hadda patch, blue:
http://www.buddiesproshop.com/product/3261/Vise_Hada_Patch_Blue_1_-_40_Pieces.htm
The red patch is slightly slower and thicker than the blue.

These might also help you.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:57:00 AM »

Ah yes, Vise Hada Patch Blue (#1). I swear by that stuff. I wear it about 95% of the time, only using the red patch on occasion. It did wonders for my release and my consistency!! I currently use the Ebonite black tape in the back of my thumbhole, but I like the sound of the Franken Tape. Gonna order some of that now.

Jay · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2008, 08:21:07 PM »

I have a similar problem as you Dan. That is, the fact that I'm looking for a relaxed grip and a clean release. But while you're not able to get a clean release at all, I already have one, except I'm hanging onto the ball with my thumb more than I'd like until release. I probably just need more forward pitch to solve this, possibly a slight span change, but you gotta do more since you have issues clearing the ball.

You said you have 3/8" away. To me that actually is a lot but if your hand calls for it that's the way it has to be, and that's the pitch you've had the best luck with right? You're in a pretty bad position because more reverse will make you grip to hang on and more forward will make you hang more. Like charlest said I think one of your problems could be your oval angle or span. after that's changed you could go from there with pitches. Sounds like starting from scratch is the way to go in this case.

Edited on 7/11/2008 8:22 PM

Buzzhead · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2008, 10:27:22 PM »

I am surprised that no one has asked if you are being measured for span and such with the brace on. I know my span is a lot shorter with a metal brace compared to none.. I used a brace too for a while, but decided to say F#$% it and go to lighter equipment... 16 to 15... now I am playing around with 14 pounders. I can tell a huge difference from 15 to 14...
--------------------
FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!

Ten pin?

?? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...

Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!

Buzzhead · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2008, 10:27:23 PM »

I am surprised that no one has asked if you are being measured for span and such with the brace on. I know my span is a lot shorter with a metal brace compared to none.. I used a brace too for a while, but decided to say F#$% it and go to lighter equipment... 16 to 15... now I am playing around with 14 pounders. I can tell a huge difference from 15 to 14...
--------------------
FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!

Ten pin?

?? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...

Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2008, 07:31:51 AM »

Update:

We quick-plugged a ball yesterday and slugged it and drilled it with a new span and pitches. Span is about 1/4" shorter, 1/8" reverse, no lateral. It feels amazing! Much, much cleaner release, much more comfortable feeling, and I can stay behind the ball without my thumb hanging. I tried throwing for awhile without my wrist brace to see if I could do it, but my wrist is just too weak. However, I got a Storm Mongoose that is much less rigid and fixed than my old brace, which helps me manipulate my hand position much better but still keeps my wrist from breaking back too much on the downswing.

REvans284 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2008, 06:34:07 PM »

quote:
However, whenever I focus on keeping my hand under the ball more and not coming around it with my elbow, I have trouble getting my thumb out of the ball. It either is too tight and sticks, or after taking just one piece of tape out, the ball feels like it's falling off my hand. Is it possible my ball fit is just not right for staying up the back of the ball while wearing a wrist support, or am I just not used to releasing the ball like this and doing something wrong?

I've had the exact same problem, and posted a similar post on here about this a while back. After experamenting with it, for me, it was too much foreward pitch. I added a little over 1/8 more reverse and I could comfortably add a piece of tape or two (I prefer black) and it comes off cleanly and you don't need to squeeze the ball like you do with the more foreward pitch and less tape. With your wrist support, that may be a way to help get it off your hand more cleanly because as your thumb swells its harder to find that sweet spot if you can't adjust your hand/wrist position in the ball to get that comfortable feel.

My fiance has adopted a few of my balls, and honestly, the one I had that has the most reverse pitch is the ball she throws the best. She too has a weaker wrist and is more speed dominant, but she seems to get the most revs and cleanest release with this ball than any of her others. She too has 2 balls with a more relaxed grip, and while she can also generate revs with these balls too, she is the most consistant with the ball that has the reverse pitch.

Later,

REvans284

Edited on 7/14/2008 6:35 PM

REvans284 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2008, 06:38:43 PM »

Aww, u replied too quick. Glad you found something that worked

.

Later,

REvans284

Author Topic: Clearing the thumbhole (Read 5795 times)

Dan Belcher

Clearing the thumbhole

Dan Belcher

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charlest

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Gazoo

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Dan Belcher

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leftyinsnellville

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Dan Belcher

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charlest

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Dan Belcher

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Jay

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Buzzhead

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Buzzhead

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Dan Belcher

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REvans284

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REvans284

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