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Author Topic: Comparisons...  (Read 2325 times)

Strider

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Comparisons...
« on: January 03, 2009, 03:10:55 AM »
How does one get any good information about getting the best ball for your exact style?  Word of mouth and pro shop recommendations are all good sources, but they're approximations at best.  Every house's version of the PBA patterns can play very different from each other, so you really can't even say "I want a strong ball for the Scorpion pattern".

I got a little money for Christmas and thought about buying a new ball.  I'd like something for med/heavy oil that has some recovery down lane.  I have a solid arc ball, but want something a little flippier for when you need to move inside and need to create enough angle to carry on heavier or longer patterns.

By chance, one of the guys in our scratch league had two very new balls I was interested in - a Cell Pearl and a Virtual Gravity.  The span and pitches were very close, I just needed a wad of tape in the thumb to achieve a very good fit.  It's a second shift house shot, but it stays in good shape.  The head oil holds up and there isn't too much carry down.

I basically stayed in the same place for both balls as I did when I threw my aging Nighthawk M2 in league.  Now I know a THS tends to make balls seem similar, but I never would have guessed how much.  An old pearl at 1000 grit polished with 1500+ games, a strong pearl at 1500 grit polished, and a really strong solid at 4000 grit were with a board or two of each other.  The Virtual Gravity was probably the hardest off the dry if I missed outside, but that was about all I could tell.

This isn't so much about a ball recommendation (although I will take them as well), but again, how do we make good choices for our exact style when buying a ball?  Demo days are cool, but with the average house shot, do we get real results, or talk ourselves into seeing things that really aren't there?  My last purchase (Black Widow Bite, intended for the same condition) didn't work out as I planned.  It's a good ball, but didn't do what I wanted.  Everyone makes good equipment now, so I'm not worried about buying a dud, but I don't want to waste money on a ball that doesn't fit where I want.
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srlunatic

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2009, 11:35:23 AM »
Well I think you really have to break it down quite a bit...

1) What do I want this ball to do on what condition?
2) How does my style equate to RG? Do I need early rolling ball or do I need later rolling balls
3) What type of movement off the break point am I looking for? Do I need a smooth..longer breakpoint shape..solid...or do I need a quicker change of direction/shorter break point shape...pearl..
4) What is my favorite drill pattern and will I be able to lay it out and achieve my desired result?

In your statement you were saying you wanted something a little flippier when you need to move inside and create enough angle or carry on heavier/longer patterns.  This screams to me a strong pearl.  You have the solid arc ball but once that starts to check up early then you can move to the pearl. It also screams out a longer Pin to Pap distance ....and a strong MB placement for a strong move off the breakpoint.  

So now the question is do you like the solid arc ball you have? If so....do they make a pearl version of it?  For me the Cell and the Cell Pearl are the balls for the heavier/longer and serve the purpose you are looking for.  

Hope this helps somehow!

Mike
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Strider

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2009, 12:24:18 PM »
Good info Mike.  In my mind, I already made judgments based on a similar train of thought.  I don't want a very high RG with my rev rate and the condition I'm targeting, I don't want a lot of lope.  Medium to med/low will work depending on the cover strength.  Early revs are OK, but don't want early hook.  My arc ball is a MoRich Weapon of Mass Bias.  I think there is an international pearlized version of the ball, but doubt it's worth looking for.  I don't need anything super flippy since I'm looking at med/heavy oil, but something with a much harder arc down lane than the WMB.  The two balls I mentioned earlier seem like good candidates, but without being able to throw one more or less drilled for me on something like Scorpion, I can never really know how either will act.
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charlest

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 12:26:55 PM »
Geoff,

I can see how the reactions of your M2, the Cell Pearl and the Virtual Graviy on your house shot would really confuse you (or anyone) regarding what ball to get. Also, you have to better define "med/heavy". That's a hole you can drive  a truck through.

There are a bunch of balls from several different manufacturers that would do something similar. Do you have a favorite maker?

As to how do you judge what will suit you?
Read the good reviews, both here and in the BTM and BJI, watch the local people with a somewhat similar style, Try others' balls that you think might work (like the Virtual Gravity). That all has not changed.

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srlunatic

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 01:00:41 PM »
Geoff,

What I like about my Cell Pearl is that it really is a solid in disguise. What I mean with that is that you don't get the jumpy, flippy, over/under ball that you expect that a pearl brings.  The Nucleus Core gets the ball rolling early but not too early and the shine helps with that also.  That was what sold me on this ball and it has really shined on the PBA shots where predictability is such a main concern.

Another ball that might be something you are looking at...again with a low RG 2.45...higher diff..... .51 and is really a sweet looking ball is the Ebonite Playmaker.  Again has a strong core...VII, and a ball that will get down the lane but will not be over/under and such but a very consistent ball for a pearl.

Just my 2 cents...:-)

Mike


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“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.”
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Strider

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 01:05:14 PM »
Pretty much anything that isn't poured by Ebonite.  I haven't had any problems with my Bite, but I just don't trust their covers long term.  The Bite is also the only ball of theirs that hit well for me.  I watch plenty of other people have lots of success with them, but I don't seem to match up with their covers.  As you know (and other can look at my profile), I throw pretty much anything that will fit the job.

I'm talking about something like Scorpion or Shark PBA patterns.  Not a true oiler, bur something for closer to heavy oil than medium.  It's very hard to quantify things like heavy or medium because we all seem to have different definitions of them.  Even the PBA patterns aren't fool proof as examples  because every house plays different.  I used some pretty strong equipment on Viper and Cheetah while I read on here where others used much weaker equipment.

Based on what I have, I want something to fit between my Tour Power at 1000 grit (stronger ball than most people recognize) and my 600 grit WMB.  Something that handles a little less oil than the WMB, but more movement down lane to complement it's big arc.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2009, 01:11:23 PM »
Horrible thing about bowling is that you know what you get once it is punched up. There is IMHO no true insuranec up front that a ball will 100% work the way you want to.
You might gather secondary information (from reviews, forums, local players who use a certain ball, your pro shop, magazines, etc.), but that's just as far as it gets you.
From experience, you might also know what works for you, and what not - e.g. certain coverstock families, RG numbers, drillings.
Trying other players' balls out is also a good thing - even though I found that an inproper fit and drilling cahnges due to different PAPs tend to "cloud" a lot of information you might get from such a test.
And even if you sort this out, the ball might not perform well for you, because you just do not match up...

Had this happen with my Smash Zone - I wanted a rolly medium condition ball, and that's just what I got. The ball was right with the specs, had settled on a drilling that would define a reaction shape that I was looking for... but the ball simply does not work for me. It is the overall core/coverstock combo that does not go well with my style, and I have big control trouble with the ball at the breakpoint and in the back end, much over/under. The ball is not a dud, it just does not suit me. It even moves the way I wanted it to, but it is rather ineffective for me (*sigh*). First time that this happened to me so drastically. You learn with every ball, in many ways...
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srlunatic

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2009, 01:17:07 PM »
Geoff,

Don't short yourself on the Playmaker...Ebonite really hit homeruns with the Gamebreaker and Playmaker and have sold many without any problems.

For the Shark I usually start for about a game and a half with my Cell...the right to the Cell Pearl once the Cell starts to check up.  Gets the length I need, the strong and controlled move I need, and the carry I need. For the Scorpion, and Chameleon the Cell Pearl is my go to ball. For both patterns it is a killer for me and can use it for all 5 games in our PBA Doubles league without problem.

It seems that a Cell Pearl is about what you are looking for and should give you the look and reaction that you are looking for.  Mine is drilled (Roto Grip Cell Pearl - 4 1/2 X 5 with 2 inch pin buffer (OOB))

This is one of my favorite drill patterns.  Used the 2 inch pin buffer to get the consistent move off the break point but not too early a roll...and with a bit of a length drilling for me.  



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“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.”
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

backswing_aplenty

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2009, 03:21:52 PM »
One of the biggest ways of thinking about equipment that helps me and what I teach my higher level customers is to forego with the "heavy", "medium" and "light" oil designations.

Better than average bowlers should have the skill set to be able to increase or decrease speed, move left and right and have more than one wrist position.  With this tool box we create all we should be looking for is a shape of hook that we want to achieve on the lanes.  Not a "heavy-medium oil ball with the emphasis on heavier with a skosh of carrydown."  Too much going in that description.  I would ask the question, "what shape of hook are you looking for on the lanes?"  Arc, snap, midlane, backend?

I've seen too many threads of "My Vibe out hooks everything I own!" Well, on clean backends with the right volume, it SHOULD!

If you start to think about your equipment in terms of hook potential and hook shape, not in oil designations it makes it much easier to narrow down your ball choices.  Combine those choices with Abralon pads and you can manipulate your hook shape and breakpoint response much more effectively than pigeon-holeing all your equipment into specific categories.


*backswing


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Strider

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2009, 03:43:57 PM »
I agree with hook shape, but disagree about hook potential.  Hook potential IS dependent on lane conditions.  Like you said, something like a Cherry Vibe can hook quite a bit on the right lane conditions.  I think oil handling ability combined with hook shape is a better definition, although I'd be interested in other's comments.

One of my team mates on our scratch league has a Gamebreaker that looks pretty solid.  I once had a V2 Particle and hated it.  That super low RG core combined with their strong cover didn't match my game at all.  I haven't seen a Playmaker to see how much cleaner it is through the heads.  I'll keep it in mind, but I never have matched well with Ebonite covers.
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janderson

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2009, 01:25:17 PM »
quote:
I watch plenty of other people have lots of success with them, but I don't seem to match up with their covers.


To throw a monkey in the wrench ...

Strider - as you know I have a fair share of Ebonite equipment. There's a buddy of mine (birwin, you out there?) at about the same skill and experience level that has a different physical game and release.

We did a demo days test together on a fairly dried-out, broken down house shot. The good thing about this particular test is that he and I threw the same physical ball - simply changed out the thumb and adjusted the span - on the same physical lane.

This was an Ebonite ball and traditionally, they work well for me, but not for my friend.

The results?

We both went for releases with moderate rotation and minimal tilt and made several tosses playing the same line. For me the ball made a smooth turn and had some continuation on the back end. For him, the ball made a sharp jerk, stopped, and rolled out.

No rhyme or reason to it, but it supported our previous observations.



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janderson

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Re: Comparisons...
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 01:41:39 PM »
quote:
Arc, snap, midlane, backend?


Agreed - beyond those tendencies there is a huge number of factors in the environment that are difficult to compare from bowler to bowler and predict from environment to environment.

You could analyze your equipment or have it professionally analyzed to identify common features in equipment you've liked in the past versus common features in equipment you haven't liked in the past.

I paid $20 for such an evaluation and for the life of me, I can't remember the name or web site of the organization.  That $20 probably saved me $1000 in equipment purchases.

For example, I found out that I best match up with reactive solids with low-Rg (under 2.50) medium differential (.030 through .045) cores and I match up worst with particle pearls with medium-Rg (2.50 through 2.55) high differential (over .045) cores.

It gives guidelines in which to operate. From there cover preparation and to a lesser degree layout and be used to tweak ball reaction.
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