Post by: Jeffrevs on August 05, 2003, 07:11:44 PM
That being said.......I'm thinking of getting a control ball. I'm looking for peoples experience with certain balls/drillings that gave them control, or people who have or have had a ball that was marketed as "control".
I'm thinking Tour Power ( I know, I know, it's gone), Purple Ice Ex, I'm even thinking of a Sonic X Solid drilled 2x5 or 2x2, etc,...etc....
So, have at it folks! Give me your recommended "control ball / sport ball" and, recommended drilling, etc........thanks..
oh, and by the way....if anyone is getting rid of anything control, I'd be glad to take something used too........
Thanks !
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Edited on 8/6/2003 11:19 AM
Edited on 8/6/2003 12:13 PM
Post by: charlest on August 06, 2003, 10:46:51 AM
Hysterical!
Almost all my balls are control balls of one sort or another. There are control balls for all conditions from dry to medium-light to medium, etc. There are ones which roll early and have small backend, there are ones which skid more and then have small backends. The key for most are small overall hooks and small backends because Sport conditions and spotty league conditions require you in 95% of the cases NOT to cover too mnay boards. Drilling can help some balls become more of a control ball, but I doubt that balls like the Top Fuel will ever be a control ball.
So, what type of control ball were you looking for?
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: Curly on August 06, 2003, 10:47:43 AM
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CURLY-
"$21.00 for a six pack of Heineken?!"
Post by: Jeffrevs on August 06, 2003, 10:53:50 AM
quote:
Hysterical!
Why ??
quote:
but I doubt that balls like the Top Fuel will ever be a control ball
I don't have a Top Fuel, nor am I looking for one, and, I know..where did you get that ?
quote:
So, what type of control ball were you looking for?
What type ?? Not sure I'm following the question...but to answer the best I can....ones that are marketed as more "control"....
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: Jeffrevs on August 06, 2003, 01:10:56 PM
quote:
SonicX. Haven't thrown the solid yet, just a hunch that it would be good since the pearl behaves so well in the dry.
Brian, thanks, I was thinking of this for the solid...but wouldn't want to put a control drill on a ball that doesn't flare much. I'm getting a solid for lighter stuff and thinking of going 4x2 which might serve 2 purposes. Pushing the cg out will get me some control as well...
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on August 06, 2003, 01:14:03 PM
Post by: Jeffrevs on August 06, 2003, 01:29:00 PM
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: rackattack on August 06, 2003, 02:02:52 PM
For the conditions we saw I would suggest
Lane 1 Blue Carbide
Storm ThunderFlash
Track EZ Money or Mutant
Columbia Roll
Dynothane Vendetta Solid
any one of these with your favorite drill would have read the mids and not over reacted on the back ends we saw.
I have resigned from the ball of the month club so I'm not up on the latest and greatest and can only offer tried and true.
P.S. Dale was throwing the Wicked B/R/T the second set as would I had I brought it.
B
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If you can't join 'em beat 'em.
Edited on 8/6/2003 9:15 PM
Post by: charlest on August 06, 2003, 02:05:39 PM
quote:quote:
Hysterical!quote:
Why ??
I've hardly ever been able to use most of these balls with huge hooks like the Pure Fuel. I think most of the houses where I bowl are not wide open shots. I've actually only found one way up North where a friend who'd I consider a good 205-215 average bowler is averaging 225 or something equally ridiculous. I went there and it seems like such a wide open shot. I can "play, AKA experiment with several balls and still average 215 myself. Now I know what some people call "house shots". I called it Funnel bowling.quote:
but I doubt that balls like the Top Fuel will ever be a control ballquote:
I don't have a Top Fuel, nor am I looking for one, and, I know..where did you get that ?
sorry. I meant the new one you got, the Pure Fuel.quote:
So, what type of control ball were you looking for?QuoteWhat type ?? Not sure I'm following the question...but to answer the best I can....ones that are marketed as more "control"....
I meant for what condition, oil pattern.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Edited on 8/6/2003 2:20 PM
Post by: Strike300 on August 06, 2003, 02:13:52 PM
. Ball would burn up too quick on me before it hits the pins. I need to work on my release more then maybe I can pull it out.
Post by: Jeffrevs on August 06, 2003, 02:15:06 PM
quote:
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but I doubt that balls like the Top Fuel will ever be a control ball
quote:
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I don't have a Top Fuel, nor am I looking for one, and, I know..where did you get that ?
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sorry. I meant the new one you got, the Pure Fuel.
Charlest, First off, I really wonder why you said this in the first place...did I give an impression that I wanted the Pure Fuel as a control ball ?Yes I did get the Pure Fuel and is NOT a HUGE hooker for me. It's got a nice strong backend, but not a HUGE hooker. I have it drilled with a 4 inch pin to pap and the mb in my track. Nice length, good midlane for a pearlized ball (particle helps there ) and a nice strong hard arcing backend...very readable. But, that's not what I'm looking for.
I'm looking for something like a Tour Power, or maybe a Purple X from Visionary....doens't have to be that way..but.....hell, my new Sonix X solid may fit this bill as well..I'm just trying to get ideas .
As for conditions......I don't know,...could be any ! Thus, thinking of adding a control type ball......
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Edited on 8/6/2003 2:29 PM
Edited on 8/6/2003 2:30 PM
Post by: charlest on August 06, 2003, 02:17:05 PM
Many people think dry lanes, but that is not necessarily so. The Scorcher can be considered such, thought for heavy oil. The Thunder Flash Pro, the Bolt Pro and the Blue Thunder Pro were some Storm control balls. The plain Thunder Flash just flat out had too huge a RG Differential and flare. It was a huge hooking ball.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: brimar on August 06, 2003, 02:20:47 PM
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Thank you for reading my post.
Brian
Post by: Constantine on August 06, 2003, 05:29:36 PM
I'll mention my ball choice, but first here's my comment on "control".
Control is the ability to have a ball do what you tell it to do. When you want it to arc smooth, it won't overreact. When you want to hit on it, the ball will react and turn the corner. When you want it to go straight (I don't mean 10 pin straight; I mean a tight line), it will go long but not through the breakpoint.
For my game, I'd expect "control" in a ball that meets this criteria:
Coverstock - mild resin, solid, 800 grit, cross-hatched
Core - Low to Medium-low RG, medium differential, symetrical
Drilling - 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" with weighthole on PAP
The drilling and core are for a fairly, early roll which gives me a good read of the lane but it isn't prone to roll-out due to the milder cover. When I increase speed and revs, the mild cover gives length while lower RG drill and core magnify my revs to give the ball some flip on clean backends. All in all its the right combination for me when the shot requires "control". But if the lanes a wide open, I put the ball away a get aggressive.
Now this is the combination for my game. I wouldn't recommend this combo to a lower rev stroker, but it works for me.
I think the key for you, or anyone else looking for "control", is to think about what combo will give you the ability to have a ball do what you tell it to do.
Good luck!
Post by: charlest on August 07, 2003, 12:32:02 AM
I said this because the Pure Fuel is the opposite of a control ball. If it is not a huge hooking ball for you. So be it.
I am sorry I said anything. How you interpreted it to be a put down of you and your ball choice I do not know. Please consider that I said nothing at all.
Post by: Buzzhead on August 07, 2003, 06:54:04 AM
I am going to try mine out tonight on the TOC shot. 50' of stuff. will let ya know how it handles the slop...
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sawzalls cut ANYTHING including 10 pins
Post by: Jeffrevs on August 07, 2003, 07:07:18 AM
please see my message.....we misunderstood each other, at least I missed something
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: Jeffrevs on August 07, 2003, 07:10:24 AM
quote:
I think the key for you, or anyone else looking for "control", is to think about what combo will give you the ability to have a ball do what you tell it to do.
Constantine, thanks, the quote above is really the ticket! Great Post!
quote:
Coverstock - mild resin, solid, 800 grit, cross-hatched
Core - Low to Medium-low RG, medium differential, symetrical
Drilling - 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" with weighthole on PAP
Do you have a specific ball currently that matches the specs you gave??
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Edited on 8/7/2003 9:40 AM
Post by: Constantine on August 07, 2003, 01:25:51 PM
quote:
Do you have a specific ball currently that matches the specs you gave??
I have a ball, but its so old I won't mention it.
I have been looking and these are the ones that interest me most (in order):
RotoGrip Sliver Streak
Columbia Piranah Retro
Visionary Charcoal Executioner
Columbia Spirit II
However, nothing looks like a perfect match. In my opinion, its a hole for every company. For example, just look a Brunswick's '03/'04 Comparison Chart...there's not an arc ball between the urethane Groove and the Swamp Monster. That's a huge gap that should be filled in my opinion. But as we all know, "control" balls don't sell as well as flashy hook balls.
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Good luck & good bowling
Post by: livespive on August 07, 2003, 01:49:20 PM
quote:quote:
Do you have a specific ball currently that matches the specs you gave??
I have a ball, but its so old I won't mention it.
I have been looking and these are the ones that interest me most (in order):
RotoGrip Sliver Streak
Columbia Piranah Retro
Visionary Charcoal Executioner
Columbia Spirit II
However, nothing looks like a perfect match. In my opinion, its a hole for every company. For example, just look a Brunswick's '03/'04 Comparison Chart...there's not an arc ball between the urethane Groove and the Swamp Monster. That's a huge gap that should be filled in my opinion. But as we all know, "control" balls don't sell as well as flashy hook balls.
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Good luck & good bowling
interesting,
You are among an increasing number of bowlers that I see that might use visionary products( as they are not well know up here in bean Town
) That has said that they would use the charcol ex for control instead of the purple ice.Why might that be oh wise one? (By the way glad to see you posting again
)I know I myself prefer a solid resin ball, over pearls. It just seems a little more "user friendly"
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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
Post by: Constantine on August 08, 2003, 09:04:59 AM
quote:
interesting,
You are among an increasing number of bowlers that I see that might use visionary products( as they are not well know up here in bean Town
Why might that be oh wise one? (By the way glad to see you posting again
I know I myself prefer a solid resin ball, over pearls. It just seems a little more "user friendly"
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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
Charcoal is solid and resin. Purple Ice is pearl and particle. Also per Visionary's ratings, the Charcoal has (on a 1 to 10 scale) length of 6.5 and backend of 8.5 while the Purple Ice has length of 5 and backend of 8. And since they have the exact same core, I know the difference is all in the cover.
I think either ball would do okay when I used my standard release. Both with my desired 2.5 x 2.5 drilling would arc smooth. However, when I wanted to play tight I think the length of the Charcoal would be beneficial. And when I want to hit the ball, I think the solid resin would give me more backend pop.
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Good luck & good bowling
Post by: Pye on August 08, 2003, 09:26:00 AM
The cover on the Charcoal is very tunable, while the cover on the Purple Ice is not. There's been more than a few that have regreted taking the Ice to the spinner. It's very hard to get it "back" if you don't like what you've done.
Post by: jjlamoroso on August 08, 2003, 09:47:41 AM
pattern and taking into account of my profile what could be
a good layout for this purpose. Ball is ordered but not drilled yet.
Thanks for reading.
Post by: livespive on August 08, 2003, 10:08:07 AM
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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
Post by: jjlamoroso on August 08, 2003, 11:06:13 AM
quote:
I see your point
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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
??????
Post by: jjlamoroso on August 09, 2003, 10:49:00 AM
In other words, If a ball due to it's design (low-med RG,
Low-med Differential, particle pearl)can be called control
ball, can it become unstable due to a too strong drilling
(3 3/8 x 3 3/8)?
Post by: Constantine on August 11, 2003, 05:19:56 PM
quote:
Any answer?
In other words, If a ball due to it's design (low-med RG,
Low-med Differential, particle pearl)can be called control
ball, can it become unstable due to a too strong drilling
(3 3/8 x 3 3/8)?
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, "control is the ability to have a ball do what you tell it to do."
For me, a leverage drill would be to unstable to be a control ball. The higher flare would hinder my length when I'm attempting to make it play tighter. The flare would also give me more over/under when I want a smooth arc on spotty conditions...but that's me.
You mentioned a Thrash earlier, which would be too strong a cover for me to consider as a control ball...but again that's me.
A bowler's style has an inherent amount of control in it. A stroker is generally much more stable and controlled than cranker. So if you feel your game is by nature under control more than most, there isn't any reason that your control ball shouldn't be more agressive than control balls.