Author Topic: Core or coverstock? Whats more important? (Read 10113 times)

jkiser01 · « **on:** December 17, 2003, 06:54:43 PM »

I am having a discussion with my friend over this subject. I say the core plays a big role in the reaction of a ball on the lane and he thinks the coverstock plays a bigger part..

Anyone have any comments on this??

jkiser01

Mike Austin · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2003, 10:06:53 AM »

Jim,

Cover stock is 70% of your ball reaction. Surface, surface, surface.... Afterall, it is what is touching the lane. Shiny/Dull, Particle/Resin/Urethane/Plastic etc.... Weight block does make a difference in the motion of the ball, but not to the extent of the shell. Most of us are not really good enough to take advantage of tweeks of different layouts with the same ball, if we were, we would be bowling for a living. We can make a noticeable difference between two of the same ball, scuff one and shine one, that is going to make a much bigger difference.

Hope this helps ya....
--------------------
Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net

Onward through the Storm!!!!

Check out my web site - www.BirdDogBowling.com

Pinbuster · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2003, 11:45:52 AM »

I agree. Coverstock and its prep is the overriding factor.

Steven · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2003, 01:05:38 PM »

I've always looked at this question from a different angle.

Certainly, when initially purchasing a ball, you want to make sure that the right cover is being purchased for the condition being matched up to. For instance, if you want a dedicated spare ball for toast, you're probably going to shop for a ball with a plastic cover. At the other end of the spectrum, if you're looking for a flood ball, you are probably going to focus on particle coverstocks. It's relatively easy to fill in the blanks for conditions in between.

I view this as the initial 'easy' decision. It's relatively easy because there are usually a number of covers that overlap and will work for a given condition. That's where surface prep comes in. So once you pick a cover (or range of covers) appropriate for the intended condition, the 'hard' choice needs to be made, which is core.

Core continues to be the under estimated factor in overall reaction. Core determines the ball's base personality (or inherent hook shape), so the right decision here is crucial. For example, first assume that the right cover for the condition was purchased. However, if the ball has very a low RG core, you cannot 'tweak' your way to a skid/snap reaction, if that was your original intent. For specifics, I have an Ebonite Savage solid that wants to hook off my hand, and no amount of surface prep and/or polish will change the base characteristics (and I've tried

). Attempts to change the core generated hook shape end up killing overall reaction.

Both factors are important, but my experience has been that if I pick the wrong core, it's hard to recover from the decision. However, if I was reasonably close in cover, I can usually get what I want through cover prep. In this sense, I believe core becomes the more critical decision.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

mumzie · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2003, 01:35:40 PM »

IMO, the surface gives you the reaction. It's easier to change, but also more important.
You can certainly tweak a coverstock surface, but it's real hard to change the core.

Gravy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2003, 01:40:42 PM »

It's topics like this that keep me interested in this web site. Keep up the good work.

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2003, 01:44:17 PM »

quote:
I agree with Steven, when purchasing a new ball you need to look at the core as the cover can be changed and enhance the reaction of the core.

Bull. The core will only allow the ball to do whatthe cover will allow. end of story.

quote:
But if you buy a ball that has a low rg you are not goign to turn it into a ball that will skid snap.

Bull2. Of course you can. Try the Inferno, then look at about 69 more balls ...

[quote}
But you can tweak it to go a little longer. In the end it is the core that produces the shape of the reaction as well as the timing with the cover being able to tweak these number a little bit.
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J.Hansen
Visionary Test Staff Member
[/quote]

You have the story reversed. Talk to ANY manufcaturer's technical rep.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

Steven · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2003, 02:05:13 PM »

charlest: I'm surprised at your comments. If you want to present an apples-to-apples comparison, drill a Lane#1 plastic XXXL (real diamond core) and a plastic Spare Storm (pancake block).

There is no comparison in reaction. The XXXL will provide a bowler with average hand some real movement on drier conditions, where the Spare Storm will go straight as an arrow. Now why is that?

Another angle is to take two identical balls, leave the same box cover, and drill them with distinctly different patterns. If you do this with thought, you can make the balls react like two completely different animals. In other words, you can generate variations in core reaction that could not be achieved drilling the same two balls identically and then playing around with cover prep. I've done this with several balls, most recently with two Ebonite Stingers.

As far as Ball manufacture technical reps, they don't always tell you the right answer -- just the convenient one. Telling customers to re-drill balls to get the reaction they want is not a pleasant story to tell. Since cover prep can sometimes be a 'quick fix' it's the easy story line. That's the cheapest and least costly path from point 'A' to 'B' (when it works).
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

Pinbuster · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2003, 02:25:43 PM »

Steven â€“ I have no problem with your statement that once you pick the correct coverstock that the core becomes dominate. But even in you example of the XXXL it has essentially the same diamond shaped core as their other balls but you could never make it a hook monster. Put it on oil and it will not move very much if at all. And you would be hard pressed to prep the plastic converstock to make it hook any on oil.

As you first stated you have to find a cover for the condition you are trying to match up to, then you look at the core.

Since the coverstock is the first decision it must be the largest factor in ball reaction.

jkiser01 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2003, 02:42:23 PM »

Guys,

thanks for all the comments. I'm glad I came up with a good question..

Keep the responses coming..

jkiser01

Steven · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2003, 02:50:53 PM »

Pinbuster: I think we are in basic agreement on what's important (and not important), but possibly look at the question differently.

In a pure sense, the coverstock decision is most important. If you don't get it right, little else matters. However, my issue with the 'coverstock is king' argument is that it's very hard not to get it right.

Tell me you want the right cover for medium THS conditions (which most of us face), and you can literally walk into a proshop blind folded a pick a "correct" ball off the display. The reality is that you can take just about anything from a mild reactive to a low-load pearl particle, and with a little tweaking, make the cover work just fine. So where is the big decision?

I think the bigger question that should be focused on is not what's most important, but what's most critical. Again, except for the extremes, just about any cover will do fine. However, even if the cover matches up, I'm screwed if I selected the wrong core (or drill). Cover prep cannot fix problems made in this area. That's whats' always lost in these discussions.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

jkiser01 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2003, 02:55:54 PM »

The incorrect drill is a whole different can of worms!! I think I just went thru that with a Big Blue I tried..

jkiser01

T-GOD · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:25:52 PM »

I'll have to agree with Steven on this. There's a first..!! lol =:^D

T-GOD · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:28:00 PM »

Constantine posted this in another thread. I thought it applied to this one. http://www.columbia300.com/innovation/techdocs.cfm?id=4 =:^D

louie · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:36:53 PM »

While you don't want a high load particle for dry lanes and plastic won't work in a flood, drilling patterns and core dynamics make a huge difference in ball reaction. I recently drilled up 2 Rhino FXIs. (A powerkoil 17 cover with a Scream/r core.) One with pin over fingers and another with a leveraged pin and a flare increasing hole. The pin over fingers ball was very mild where the leveraged ball was only good on long oil. Drill patterns and core types make a huge difference in modern bowling balls.
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Author Topic: Core or coverstock? Whats more important? (Read 10113 times)

jkiser01

Core or coverstock? Whats more important?

Mike Austin

Re: Core or coverstock? Whats more important?

Pinbuster

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Steven

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mumzie

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Gravy

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charlest

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Steven

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Pinbuster

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jkiser01

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Steven

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jkiser01

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T-GOD

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T-GOD

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louie

Re: Core or coverstock? Whats more important?

Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?

louie

Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?

louie