Author Topic: Core Shapes? (Read 10859 times)

six pack · « **on:** August 17, 2017, 05:15:37 PM »

Do core shapes matter? Do you think they make a difference? Not so much the number's but the shape of the core?
It seems to me or at least I got it in my head that they do despite the rg and diff numbers.
What say you?

six pack · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2017, 12:11:41 PM »

So I guess I should categorize equipment choices like...
Low to high rg and diff slow response. And
Low to high rg and diff fast response?

These are all just symmetric cores. Asymm is another road.

charlest · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2017, 12:21:25 PM »

Quote from: six pack on August 18, 2017, 12:11:41 PM

So I guess I should categorize equipment choices like...
Low to high rg and diff slow response. And
Low to high rg and diff fast response?
These are all just symmetric cores. Asymm is another road.

Your summary is a perfect example of what I said: coverstock rules core, in general. Of course, the bowler's release is THE major influence, more than either of these

Higher RG balls can be rolly or flippy. Lower RG balls can be rolly or flippy.
More depends on the coverstock and the bowler's release, than the core, in general.

Cornerpin · « **Reply #18 on:** August 18, 2017, 12:30:17 PM »

Quote from: six pack on August 18, 2017, 12:00:09 PM

The reason I brought up this topic is I like and do well with the large round cores but they tend to roll to hard for me and lose carry. I try surface changes but sometimes it seems I lose the matchup between core and cover. Most tall cores flip hard for me and I don't tend to keep those types in an arsenal for very long,don't even want to try anymore with those core types. I set up one of my wife's old 14lb. Rotogrip Venus and with its high rg and low diff and a big core in it I love the ball. It motors down the lane and rips the rack without the flippy reaction I can get with tall cores. Of course cover and layout plays a roll.
I thinking of trying the storm fight as over the years almost all my favorite balls had large cores, just a tendency I've noticed over the years.

I recommend you give the Fight a try, I love it and the Street Fight as well. It does exactly what you say, the huge core revs up and motors down the lane but the reaction is smooth, not jumpy. Plus the core really helps the ball drive through the deck and carry very well. I liken it to a strong urethane with much better carry.

2handedrook12 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 18, 2017, 01:52:39 PM »

Quote from: Cornerpin on August 18, 2017, 12:30:17 PM

Quote from: six pack on August 18, 2017, 12:00:09 PM
The reason I brought up this topic is I like and do well with the large round cores but they tend to roll to hard for me and lose carry. I try surface changes but sometimes it seems I lose the matchup between core and cover. Most tall cores flip hard for me and I don't tend to keep those types in an arsenal for very long,don't even want to try anymore with those core types. I set up one of my wife's old 14lb. Rotogrip Venus and with its high rg and low diff and a big core in it I love the ball. It motors down the lane and rips the rack without the flippy reaction I can get with tall cores. Of course cover and layout plays a roll.
I thinking of trying the storm fight as over the years almost all my favorite balls had large cores, just a tendency I've noticed over the years.

I recommend you give the Fight a try, I love it and the Street Fight as well. It does exactly what you say, the huge core revs up and motors down the lane but the reaction is smooth, not jumpy. Plus the core really helps the ball drive through the deck and carry very well. I liken it to a strong urethane with much better carry.

If people treated them like that, they wouldn't be hated overall. I've wanted to get one of them a try, but it's a big risk.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #20 on:** August 18, 2017, 01:56:49 PM »

Great video from EBI on core shape;/symmetry and the affects on bowling ball reaction.

Only thing to consider is this, in any series from release to release like the Black Widow, Gamer Breaker, Warrior etc they never change the core shape to get different ball reactions (too costly) the change coverstocks and surfaces to get the desired reaction.

So even though in this video they have three different style cores use the same cover to get three different reactions.....that is not what they "manufactures" do when changing ball reaction across a line. So maybe you shouldn't over think core shape and core numbers so much?

In different cases I have seen manufactures use different core specs in the same core along with cover changes to get different reactions. Black Widow series, Inferno series, Siege series, Antics series etc. they raised or lowered the RG and Diff, and Int diff in some to get different results using the same shape core.

My biggest suggestion to anyone, especially after watching this video is focus on the manufactures intended purpose for the ball ie light oil,medium oil, heavy etc. Also pay attention to things like "clean", "long", or "midlane" etc as to what the intended conditions maybe. Especially pay attention to the surface finish. Know that it can be adjusted to any finish of sanded through polish no matter if the ball is a solid, pearl, or hybrid coverstock.

Keep it simple

Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2017, 02:17:07 PM »

Seismic made the TSE series of balls. All same cover, but different cores. Look for videos on YouTube of them to see impact of core on reaction.

six pack · « **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2017, 06:54:18 PM »

I don't think the KISS method has applied in choosing a ball in a long time due to how complex bowling balls have become and I feel it's a bad idea to fall for the simple ideals of ball choice like cover trump's all and just pick the ball for the amount of oil you see. It is far more complex then that with way to many variables involved with bowler stats, ball stats, lane pattern, lane topography and God forbid add a ball spinner and what type of sanding media you use or sanding technique or how long the sanding media last.
I think the Kiss method has left the Building a long time ago.

But the vid on core shapes was helpful even though I've seen it before.Thanks!

charlest · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2017, 07:10:47 PM »

It is not as simple as nor will it ever be, nor did I/we say it was cover trumps all.

Coverstock is the overriding influence, but that does not mean that core does not have any influence. Of course it does.

But you missed the very important essential of ball choice that ignitebowling emphasized: You must take into account, first and foremost, what the manufacturer intended to be the ball reaction for any one particular ball. Your own bowling release/delivery will affect that essential, as will the drilling. The combination of all that together with the oil pattern/amount on which you bowl, will become your ball reaction for that ball.

HackJandy · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2017, 07:45:03 PM »

>I don't think the KISS method has applied in choosing a ball

I don't know I just a bought a Hy-Road based mostly on reading about it from people on this board whose opinions I value and because I needed a benchmark with some backend to make up for being speed dominant. The values on paper are valuable and yes I have a spreadsheet of those for all my balls but talking to what works for bowlers similar to me is valuable as well.

six pack · « **Reply #25 on:** August 18, 2017, 08:10:16 PM »

I have found the manufactures describe the balls very good IF you know how to read them. That's the problem.
Seems almost everyone Loved the Hyroad yet despite 3 attempts at this ball I have not. Why? maybe just maybe I didn't understand what and if I should of been using it on?

HackJandy · « **Reply #26 on:** August 18, 2017, 08:19:19 PM »

Quote from: six pack on August 18, 2017, 08:10:16 PM

I have found the manufactures describe the balls very good IF you know how to read them. That's the problem.
Seems almost everyone Loved the Hyroad yet despite 3 attempts at this ball I have not. Why? maybe just maybe I didn't understand what and if I should of been using it on?

Yeah one shop nearby has loaners to try but for most part there is a you take your chances element. Sometimes buying a ball is not even rational. I have five urethane balls when it would be hard to justify more than one simply because I love throwing them score be damned. Of course quickly have ran out of closet space and didn't want to count on my Scandal Pearl as my benchmark when I do need to score (still a great ball later in a session) so went with the legend.

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 18, 2017, 08:35:34 PM »

I agree that cores matter now, perhaps more than ever, BUT it's the ball's cover that touches the lane surface and reads friction, etc. All the hocus pocus in the world won't change that.

Perhaps the bowler is the ENGINE,
The cover is the TIRES,
And the CORE could be the transmission (helping the power each bowler applies to transfer energy to the tires)?

bergman · « **Reply #28 on:** August 18, 2017, 09:06:01 PM »

As an old physics major, I concur with Notclay's analysis on core shapes/ densities.
He is correct in that a core's shape alone, does not determine its radius of gyration (RG). It is how the core's density is distributed within that core that determines a core's RG. In addition to the core, it is also how the density of the coverstock surrounding the core is distributed, that will also affect a ball's overall RG numbers. That's why is is more accurate to look at the core's specs, rather than the core's design, in getting a better understanding on how a ball's construction will generally be expected to react.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #29 on:** August 18, 2017, 10:09:41 PM »

Quote from: six pack on August 18, 2017, 06:54:18 PM

I don't think the KISS method has applied in choosing a ball in a long time due to how complex bowling balls have become and I feel it's a bad idea to fall for the simple ideals of ball choice like cover trump's all and just pick the ball for the amount of oil you see. It is far more complex then that with way to many variables involved with bowler stats, ball stats, lane pattern, lane topography and God forbid add a ball spinner and what type of sanding media you use or sanding technique or how long the sanding media last.
I think the Kiss method has left the Building a long time ago.

But the vid on core shapes was helpful even though I've seen it before.Thanks!

Ever been to a demo days event? Very simple.

People focus on undrilled core numbers and think they know what the end results will be. Most don't understand the affects of flare on ball reaction.

avabob · « **Reply #30 on:** August 19, 2017, 10:53:32 AM »

Charlest already said it, but worth repeating. Surface is more important than core, but release ( axis rotation, rev rate, ball speed) trumps shell and core.

Author Topic: Core Shapes? (Read 10859 times)

six pack

Core Shapes?

six pack

Re: Core Shapes?

charlest

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Cornerpin

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2handedrook12

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ignitebowling

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Strapper_Squared

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six pack

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charlest

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HackJandy

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six pack

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HackJandy

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BallReviews-Removed0385

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bergman

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ignitebowling

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avabob

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