Author Topic: Could this problem be related to my ball fit? (Read 3383 times)

akt22 · « **on:** August 29, 2009, 01:15:08 PM »

Basically I've been doing the underhand spiral drill with a football but I'm having trouble duplicating that feeling on a bowling ball.

When I throw an underhand spiral with a football, it feels like the ball rolls off my fingers, but when I try to duplicate that, it instead feels like my fingers are turning the ball. If I were to describe it better, it would be like the feeling when you first try to hook the ball, that over rotation of the wrist kind of feeling.

This feeling using a bowling ball really ruins my consistency. If I can have that of the ball rolling off my fingers feeling like the football drill, it would really help my game.

I theorize it could be something with my ball fit because of the way the football rests in my hand. My fit is as follows.

Span: 4 1/4 M 4 1/4 R

Finger pitch: 3/8 lateral L 3/8 lateral R
0 Foward/Reverse Middle finger 1/4 forward Ring finger. Both use powerlifts.

Thumb pitch: 0 lateral
1/4 forward

If anyone has any advice regarding my fit or how I could transfer this underhand spiral feeling to how I throw a bowling ball. I would appreciate it.

Smash49 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2009, 10:51:25 PM »

Sounds like you maybe grabbing the ball from the pitch specs you posted. Fingers at 0 and 1/4 forward and thumb at 1/4 forward means that all of them are pointed towards the center of the ball. I would bet your hand is not really those specs.

Smash49
--------------------
Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
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akt22 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2009, 11:47:16 PM »

quote:
Sounds like you maybe grabbing the ball from the pitch specs you posted. Fingers at 0 and 1/4 forward and thumb at 1/4 forward means that all of them are pointed towards the center of the ball. I would bet your hand is not really those specs.

With my thumb, I just recently moved it to 1/4 forward so I understand that. Before it was zero, but I had problems squeezing, hence the change.

With my fingers, I had them measured and they always came out as at zero and 1/4 forward before using powerlifts.

Also what does grabbing the ball mean in bowling terms? I've seen that term used before but I always get confused.

quote:
You need to change your finger pitches if your going to use 1/4 forward thumb pitch. My general rule of thumb is to start somebody out with around the same reverse in the fingers as the forward is in the thumb. Meaning since your using 1/4 forward in your thumb, use 1/4 reverse (away pitch) in your fingers. (You can start at 1/8 to 1/4 in the fingers as you see fit).

Get rid of the power lifts as they add pitch in your fingers and increase the forward (under pitch in the fingers). That 1/4 forward in your ring finger is prob closer to 3/8 to 1/2 with the power lift edge.

Like mentioned above, I used 0 before the change, but still kept the fingers as they orginally were.

I'm thinking of sticking to 1/4 pitch forward because at zero I still squeeze but I do agree I probably need to change my fingerpitch. It's just that one of my proshops told me that reverse finger pitch is for people who aren't flexible enough. Other sites have told me something similar and that it really doesn't mean much in the release.

Edited on 8/30/2009 2:13 AM

Nbgiant25 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2009, 09:09:33 AM »

In my experience, if your fingers feel like they are turning the ball, you're probably suffering from one of the two following issues:

Your thumb is not getting out of the ball cleanly.

or

You are over-rotating your wrist instead of staying behind the ball and following through.

Now, as has been mentioned, if your ball isn't drilled properly, who knows what crazy stuff could be happening. Get that figured out first, and then work on the release.
--------------------
University of North Texas Bowling
National Rank: 22
2008-2009 SWIBC Champions

http://www.meangreenbowling.com
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los2003 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2009, 09:16:05 AM »

It sounds like you may need some reverse in your fingers.. Maybe thumb too

the pooh · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2009, 09:57:42 AM »

^^^ I agree. I have drilled thousands of balls, and I see very few people whose fingers allow 0 forward/reverse pitch.Most people need 1/8 and more reverse in the fingers, some as much as 3/4". With the power lifts, you are between 1/8 and 1/4 FORWARD! It is possible, but highly unlikely!

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the pooh

akt22 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2009, 02:57:59 PM »

I took my ball to the shop yesterday and the operator said he'd change the ball grips to ovals. This would be like adding reverse. I like the feel, but felt it could be better.

It was a step in the right direction though. I was thinking of going 1/4 reverse. With the additional 1/4 forward thumbpitch, this would be ideal according to the post above, but the operator warned me that too much would not create enough lift. Would 1/4 reverse be too much with 1/4 forward thumbpitch?

JohnP · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2009, 03:16:31 PM »

quote:
Would 1/4 reverse be too much with 1/4 forward thumbpitch?

Totally depends on your joint flexibility. And don't worry about losing lift. As long as your pitch is right for your flexibility you'll be OK. -- JohnP

akt22 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2009, 05:16:09 PM »

quote:
You don't lift a bowling ball to make it hook. Your un-roll your wrist with little to know finger lift as possible.

Using away pitch will make your fingers sit flat in the inserts therefore creating much more leverage at the release point. Most bowlers see an increase in performance after they get used to not hitting up on the ball.

Going from lip pitched inserts to ovals also changed your span (shortened). You must make sure that you like this feel. The change in insert type generally changes your span a 1/16 to 1/8th of an inch depending on the insert wall thickness.

Hold on a minute, forgive my ignorance but if you don't lift with your fingers, then what are you supposed to do with them in making a ball hook? This is what always confuses me. I don't hit up because I release on the downswing, next to my ankle.

I've heard that the proper way for the fingers to come out is come up through the ball. What is the difference between the ball coming up through the fingers and lift?

The problem I'm having is that I can't feel my release consistently of the fingers. Wouldn't too much reverse make it so that you don't feel it at all?

Span wise, I think I'm fine as it doesn't feel streched or shortened too much.

quote:
Totally depends on your joint flexibility. And don't worry about losing lift. As long as your pitch is right for your flexibility you'll be OK

My hands are flexible according to my operator. I assume I'll be ok Right? I'm just concerned too much might cause some problems.

Edited on 9/1/2009 5:30 PM

Edited on 9/1/2009 5:31 PM

Goof1073 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 01, 2009, 05:18:08 PM »

quote:
You don't lift a bowling ball to make it hook. Your un-roll your wrist with little to know finger lift as possible.

I think KW really hit on the one of the major points here. Rotating a small light object like a football is easy because you are able to easily get under the ball and come through it. To recreate that same position with a Bowling Ball has a good deal to do with technique, timing, balance, etc. The best pitches in the world won't make up for a form / timing issue.
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-Chris: DJ's Pro Shop : Auburn, MA

akt22 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2009, 06:03:28 PM »

So I get my ball back today and with reverse pitch, the ball feels indifferent, which means I can't feel the spiral action like that of a foot ball. I think Nbgiant25 response might be the problem.

quote:
Your thumb is not getting out of the ball cleanly

How do I get my thumb out cleanly? I've tried forward or reverse pitch, but for me the thumb won't come off until I apply lift with the fingers at the bottom of my swing. How can I clear the thumb early enough while still having ample time for my fingers to drive through the ball?

quote:
You are over-rotating your wrist instead of staying behind the ball and following through.

I understand staying behind the ball, but how do I follow through while staying behind the ball? I mean that if I try to stay behind the ball and then follow through, I roll a straight ball instead. How do I stay behind the ball, follow through, not rotate my wrist and still add side rotation?

Smash49 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2009, 07:59:42 PM »

Sounds like you need a new pro shop guy or the one you are using needs to help you understand and correct the problems.

Smash49
--------------------
Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.comBowlers Journal International's Top 100 Coaches!!! 2007, 2008, 2009

akt22 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 03, 2009, 08:56:11 PM »

I think I do. I've been to many proshops around my area, but not one has attempted to watch me bowl in order to answer my questions.

All I want is just to learn how to hook the ball properly. How to get the thumb out cleanly and quickly, how to create revs with your fingers and wrist etc.

That's why I'm trying to fool around with my pitches to see if I can get a cleaner release that feels consistent

It's really frustrating because I don't know where to go to show me these things. The best place so far that has explained to me what these things are the many bowling forums in the internet.

I live in the chicago area, so if there is a place within one hour's worth of driving that can answer my questions and watch me bowl, I would really appreciate it.

JohnP · « **Reply #13 on:** September 03, 2009, 10:26:26 PM »

Cup your wrist slightly and bend it toward your pinkie finger. That will put your fingers under the ball. Swing with your thumb in the 11 - 12 o'clock position. When you get to the release position, allow your arm and wrist to naturally rotate the ball (no rotation from the shoulder or elbow, only the forward swing motion) and try to feel your thumb release, then your fingers drive through. Release the ball at the "flat spot" of the swing like an airplane coming down for a landing. -- JohnP

Author Topic: Could this problem be related to my ball fit? (Read 3383 times)

akt22

Could this problem be related to my ball fit?

Smash49

Re: Could this problem be related to my ball fit?

akt22

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Nbgiant25

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los2003

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the pooh

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akt22

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JohnP

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akt22

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Goof1073

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akt22

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Smash49

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akt22

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JohnP

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