BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Applejacks on June 27, 2015, 07:00:30 PM
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I came across this post about why bowling balls lose their reactions. (http://www.motivbowling.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15174), but what I'm confused about is why motiv can last so long without losing their reaction that quickly, but when i use hammer or columbia equipment, that reaction doesnt last for more than 20? I wipe my ball after every shot and clean after every session, but it just seems to lose that reaction so much faster than my motiv equipment. Am i doing something wrong or is there anything I can do to keep that reaction for a longer period of time?
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Honest answer? Buy Motiv. They have a coverstock formula that is allows for their equipment to hook with the best but last twice as long. And this is no joke. Ask any pro shop operator with a Detox machine and they will tell you the same. I have a Shock with over 100 games on it. I have never touched the surface with a pad and it hooks the same as it did day 1. I clean it every 10 or so games and keep going.
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Some go some don't. I still have my original Blue Vibe with over 500 games on it and I never resurfaced or deoiled until I was probably close to 300. Still rolls just like when I got it.
I got a C300 Blur Pearl in November. Rolled amazing for me, couldn't shoot under 700 with it. After about 50 games the reaction just went away. Deoiled and resurfaced, shot 855 A couple weeks after that and a few weeks after that the reaction was gone again. Deoiled again and reaction was still gone
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Some absorb oil some dont. Those that do, require more up keep. The ball surface will change to the lane it is being thrown on.
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tkk can i ask why you think motiv is superior besides the whole longer lasting?
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I am a former Storm staff member. I had zero complaints with their equipment, but there was so much out that I wanted to try. So I drilled up a couple Global, Radical, and Motiv balls. For me, the Motiv balls gave me something very similar to Storm, which is a good thing in my opinion. But I have noticed that Motiv has less overlap in their arsenal. Not to mention that I have not lost more than a board or two in reaction of balls that I have had for 3 months. Motiv has a few oil absorbing videos out that also help with this claim. So here is what I have; Similar ball motion as the best ball company in the industry, much slower oil absorbing rate, and a more complete arsenal.
Now with that being said, I am not saying their arsenal is perfect nor are their balls. I have an Octane that gets me out of jams on burn, but is over under on fresh backends. I had to put my Tribal Fire at 4k to make it a little more useful on flat patterns. And they need a shiny Asym. For bowlers who need the extra core help. My arsenal from strongest to weakest is Revolt, Rage, Vengeance, Sting, Shock, Octane, Fire, Tag. It is a pretty complete arsenal without any overlap, in my opinion. The Jackal and Remix will fit above the Revolt. The Forza is slower than the Shock, but those 2 could be interchangeable for overall strength? Not motion. The Panic would fit around the Fire and the new Redline should replace the Sting. And one last thing. Their neomarks are pretty cool as is their citrus scent.
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I see, those are good reasons to throw motiv. Thanks for the advice. I think i'll try motiv, but still interested in other brands too, just hate the fact they lose that reaction so fast
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I'm not on staff, so I'm just giving an honest review. But these balls are making me money. So why wouldn't I talk them up?
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def and i appreciate the honest review.. really hard to find that these days. I just so new to motiv so i haven't got a lot of experience with them yet
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tkkshop nailed it here. I have thrown Storm/Roto Grip and the EBI brands and found that Motiv without question lasts the longest on their covers. The strongest Motiv ball I have currently is the Revolt and after doing an oil extraction after an entire season, there was barely any oil that came out. Same with the Sting. I'm also expecting the same with my new Tribal Fire.
EBI had the worst covers in my opinion and those died out the fastest when I used to use those. Granted, my Track 505T lasted a long time for me and gave me a very nice look, but my 919C was way more condition specific than I ever thought it would be. Plus, that cover didn't take to surface changes well and eventually I sold it. My Vital Energy was a nice pearl cover but lost its reaction fairly quickly.
The thing I also like is that Motiv is Storm-like with their reactions yet seem to be more versatile. Just like the Storm covers, they take changes well. But, there isn't the overlap you see with other brands. So in my case, building a 6 ball arsenal is going to be easier than choosing from Storm/Roto Grip where there are 5 balls in the majority of each line.
So even though I like Storm/Roto Grip, I think Motiv is the best with their coverstocks and overall line at this point. Yes, there are some holes that Motiv will need to fill to have a complete line, but they're a great alternative to Utah.
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I have no longevity issues with Brunswick balls. I do have my own spinner and ball oven and take good care of my equipment, but I've yet to experience the loss of reaction that people describe. Same goes for the DV8 equipment I maintain for a friend.
I did see it once with a Hammer Hot Sauce Pearl that went from being one of the most angular balls I've ever seen to a turd.
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I have had a few Motiv balls and never matched up well except for the GT-1. That was an awesome ball.
For coverstocks as someone who uses Brunswick/DV8 exclusively I have had no issues with ball death. My original Aura has a couple hundred games on it and I have never been able to bake a drop of oil out of it. I always adjust surface for my desired reaction and is a must have in my bag for anything I bowl.
The Paranormal is another great ball I love that has had oil bake out and continues to go strong. Some balls will absorb more oil then others and it isn't always the ones you expect. If you take care of your equipment it will not be an issues for 99% of the bowlers out there.
I know plenty of bowlers throwing equipment (dirty grit) that has never seen a cleaning or anything else for years since buying the balls and it rolls great for them from various manufactures. I have also been asked to clean up a few and afterwards been told how much better the ball rolled and didn't realize there would be any difference.
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Brunswick coverstocks have long since been renown for their longetivity, ever since the PowrKoil days.
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I throw a lot of Ebonite/ Columbia balls. I haven't noticed a drop off in performance
with my equipment . In the early years of reactive balls, the ones with particle coverstocks died an early death for me.
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Ive used hammer and brunswick/dv8 before and I've noticed the hammer losing their reaction pretty quick and were the only ones that ever really "died" on me. Dv8 lasted longer, but needed oil removal pretty frequently with a slight decrease in performance.
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I remember years ago when The One by Ebonite was notorious for coverstock death and soon after that, Ebonite just had that reputation to bad coverstocks not lasting. I've generally had a lot of luck with the Track 505T lasting for over 5 years without even an oil extraction. Only ball from Motiv that I've heard issues with as far as coverstock death was the Raptor, which I did lose some reaction with it within half a season even with a light resurfacing. Best thing anyone can do is clean their equipment after every session with a strong cleaner like Clean N' Dull or Ultimate Rejuvenator.
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I came across this post about why bowling balls lose their reactions. (http://www.motivbowling.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15174), but what I'm confused about is why motiv can last so long without losing their reaction that quickly, but when i use hammer or columbia equipment, that reaction doesnt last for more than 20? I wipe my ball after every shot and clean after every session, but it just seems to lose that reaction so much faster than my motiv equipment. Am i doing something wrong or is there anything I can do to keep that reaction for a longer period of time?
So your losing reaction after 20 games, If all your doing is just wiping and just using some cleaner on it I'm not surprised.
More than likely you need to touch up the surface, you know take a abralon pad or piece of sandpaper to it.
That's one of the thing's mentioned in that 4 year old post see: "2. Restore the surface."
Your surface texture is changing everytime you roll the ball down the lane. So depending on just what surface you have on the ball, your reaction can change fast.
Check out the Jayhawk Ball Surface Scanner-3 Game Surface Analysis video.
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Brunswick hijack. You don't say. I guess if the OP cared, he would have asked. Motiv can survive in Michigan, Nick. How come B couldn't?
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I came across this post about why bowling balls lose their reactions. (http://www.motivbowling.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15174), but what I'm confused about is why motiv can last so long without losing their reaction that quickly, but when i use hammer or columbia equipment, that reaction doesnt last for more than 20? I wipe my ball after every shot and clean after every session, but it just seems to lose that reaction so much faster than my motiv equipment. Am i doing something wrong or is there anything I can do to keep that reaction for a longer period of time?
So your losing reaction after 20 games, If all your doing is just wiping and just using some cleaner on it I'm not surprised.
More than likely you need to touch up the surface, you know take a abralon pad or piece of sandpaper to it.
That's one of the thing's mentioned in that 4 year old post see: "2. Restore the surface."
Your surface texture is changing everytime you roll the ball down the lane. So depending on just what surface you have on the ball, your reaction can change fast.
Check out the Jayhawk Ball Surface Scanner-3 Game Surface Analysis video.
I do resurface after a certain amount of games, mostly when I see the reaction die i go and sand it with whatever.
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I remember years ago when I first started following these bowling forums. Most of the posters who preached the meticulous care of the cover stocks were Ebonite people. I think covers have improved somewhat over the years. Early Storm pearls were very bad for dying. However Ebonite solids were the worst. A former Ebonite staffer told me he was pretty sure part of the problem was the shell thickness. Brunswick shells prior to 2007 were easily the most durable.
I think the manufacturers have actually changed or cut back on the resin additives from the first couple of generations in the 90's. It should be remembered that all resin balls are urethane with the resin additive. The resin basically improved friction off the oil without the aggressive shell prep that was standard on strong urethanes prior to resin. This lead to a more extreme skid snap look that we would prefer to be tamed down a bit today. If you think about it, we dulled stuff up in the 80's to try to get it to hook more. Today we dull it up to get it to burn off energy earlier and smooth out the hook.
In summary, shells have changed on balls since the introduction of urethane. Before resin, it was hard to keep the shell in box condition partly because the lane polished the shell, but partly because even non resin urethane absorbed oil to a greater extent than we understood back then. Original Black Hammer, and Columbia Black U Dots were terrible for longevity.
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I remember years ago when I first started following these bowling forums. Most of the posters who preached the meticulous care of the cover stocks were Ebonite people. I think covers have improved somewhat over the years. Early Storm pearls were very bad for dying. However Ebonite solids were the worst. A former Ebonite staffer told me he was pretty sure part of the problem was the shell thickness. Brunswick shells prior to 2007 were easily the most durable.
I think the manufacturers have actually changed or cut back on the resin additives from the first couple of generations in the 90's. It should be remembered that all resin balls are urethane with the resin additive. The resin basically improved friction off the oil without the aggressive shell prep that was standard on strong urethanes prior to resin. This lead to a more extreme skid snap look that we would prefer to be tamed down a bit today. If you think about it, we dulled stuff up in the 80's to try to get it to hook more. Today we dull it up to get it to burn off energy earlier and smooth out the hook.
In summary, shells have changed on balls since the introduction of urethane. Before resin, it was hard to keep the shell in box condition partly because the lane polished the shell, but partly because even non resin urethane absorbed oil to a greater extent than we understood back then. Original Black Hammer, and Columbia Black U Dots were terrible for longevity.
On the question of shell thickness, take a look at this Brunswick Gold Rhino Pro from 1994 and this Brunswick Strike King from twenty years later.
(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbowlingballexchange.com%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D19159%26amp%3Bthumb%3D1%26amp%3Bd%3D1435623225&hash=589e4dd621dbb40037e7ea54acdab221fa30ab21)
(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbowlingballexchange.com%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D19160%26amp%3Bthumb%3D1%26amp%3Bd%3D1435623250&hash=f31dd0d0fa9d9671553a7847550da96aef1e7a0e)
I know that thinner shells and more filler allowed companies to push the edge on RG and differential, but I have to wonder how much shell thickness has to do with longevity.
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so theoretically doesn't this mean that equipment like the rocket/hyroad/IQs from the storm is gonna last as long as motiv since the coverstock is thicker than their other thinner equipment?
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possible but i think theres something different about the motiv coverstock that lets it last longer oob
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Shell thickness has long changed with the larger cores used in many bowling balls. As a ball whore who drills more then a normal person should since 2001(year I stopped using inserts) I've had a total of 3 or 4 bowling balls crack….. I think 4 and this is out of probably a minimum 250 bowling balls. I know plenty of of people who drill maybe 4-5 a year max and have at least one crack a year.
Why do you suppose that is?
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Kidlost, if I go by what a pro shop is saying, do you bowl against Twister pins? They are supposed to be the primary reason for many balls cracking around here.
(and yet, none of the house balls have cracked)
:)
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As for coverstock longevity, I have a couple of Visionary balls that I have been using for 15 years and they seem to have not lost much reaction.
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M2A we have four local houses and as far as I know none do. Urethane house balls are magic
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I have owned hundreds of resin balls over the last 20+ years. Only balls that ever cracked on me were an EPX, and a pearl Ebonite ( forget which one ). However had plenty die on me. Trauma, Green Bolt and X Factor were the worst from Storm because they were so good out of the box. Several Columbia balls from late 90's were also bad, along with every solid from Ebonite. Original Mission ( pearl ) was very good and long lasting, but when it finally died we couldn't bring it back. Longest lasting balls were Raging Red Fuze, Inferno, Vapor Zone, Absolute Inferno Pearl Fury. I am not at all good about maintenance so keep that in mind.
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My new Delirium cracked last week . It's the first ball to crack on me in a very long time.