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Author Topic: Cracked bowling balls (article)  (Read 17255 times)

nocarey

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Cracked bowling balls (article)
« on: November 03, 2014, 11:10:33 AM »
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Gizmo823

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2014, 10:49:24 AM »
More porosity in shells mean they should actually crack less since they are less dense and therefore more "flexible."  As technology advances, you will see more performance and most likely more issues.  Increased performance doesn't always mean increased durability, sometimes there's a tradeoff.  And he didn't say they were having curing issues, he said they weren't allowing the cores and balls the time they need to properly cure.  That's an issue with process, not material. 

Quote from: jls on November 05, 2014, 09:55:21 AM
Quote from: JustRico on November 04, 2014, 10:54:40 PM
In my opinion, from what I know of manufacturing, anything made has a natural curing time...so if the time needed is shortened, that doesn't or wouldn't eliminate that necessity...so if the core is still 'changing' or curing and the cover is poured over a changing, 'live' object, something generally gives....thus any crack becomes a gap...the core is pushing the shell away or expands
I do not believe it has anything to do with the shell thickness or porosity of the covers...
Just Rico...Yesterday a customer came in with two old balls from the 90's..

A Piranha and a Beast...Neither one was cracked...And the shells on those balls were
much thicker...In that era most shells were 1 1/2" thick...Which became the reason
Thumb slugs became popular...

Today's shells are about 3/8" thick at best...and are more porous...

I don't ever recall having cracking issues with the balls from that era...

So IMO...I think it is possible that the thinner and more porous shells on today's balls
may indeed be a reason for all the cracking issues...

I find it rather ODD that all of a sudden...All the manufacturers are having curing issues...

Shells are about 20% as thick compared to balls of that era...That means boo koo
savings on material...


just my opinion...


I also have an opinion about Obama...oops...lol
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Gizmo823

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2014, 10:50:33 AM »
Who here has had Hyroads crack?  Those shells are SUPER thick. 
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2014, 10:56:54 AM »
Covers are thinner for 2 reasons.  Filler is cheaper than cover and filler weighs less than cover. 

You can make balls with thicker covers but you are generally limited in the RG's and differentials that can be achieved.
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Monster Pike

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2014, 11:03:54 AM »
Just fill the cracks with plug material... good as new...  ;) :o  :P
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milorafferty

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2014, 11:09:06 AM »
Quote from: Gizmo823 on November 05, 2014, 10:50:33 AM
Who here has had Hyroads crack?  Those shells are SUPER thick. 

I was thinking exactly the same thing Giz.
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3835

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2014, 11:22:00 AM »
Although no HyRoad experience, I only use old Quantums and anyone that has been around knows how old they are. I still use the originals (Forest Green, Midnight Blue, and Scarlet urethane) as much as the newer stuff (which is still 15+ years old). The Forest, Scarlet, Aqua Marine and many others are a mushroom core with cover only over the core, no fillers. None have cracked except.......my Sage (not the Sage Tour). Guess what the Sage is? One of the few Quantums that has a wrap around the mushroom core to achieve a lower RG. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

3835
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jls

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2014, 11:33:38 AM »
Quote from: Gizmo823 on November 05, 2014, 10:49:24 AM
More porosity in shells mean they should actually crack less since they are less dense and therefore more "flexible."  As technology advances, you will see more performance and most likely more issues.  Increased performance doesn't always mean increased durability, sometimes there's a tradeoff.  And he didn't say they were having curing issues, he said they weren't allowing the cores and balls the time they need to properly cure.  That's an issue with process, not material. 

Quote from: jls on November 05, 2014, 09:55:21 AM
Quote from: JustRico on November 04, 2014, 10:54:40 PM
In my opinion, from what I know of manufacturing, anything made has a natural curing time...so if the time needed is shortened, that doesn't or wouldn't eliminate that necessity...so if the core is still 'changing' or curing and the cover is poured over a changing, 'live' object, something generally gives....thus any crack becomes a gap...the core is pushing the shell away or expands
I do not believe it has anything to do with the shell thickness or porosity of the covers...
Just Rico...Yesterday a customer came in with two old balls from the 90's..

A Piranha and a Beast...Neither one was cracked...And the shells on those balls were
much thicker...In that era most shells were 1 1/2" thick...Which became the reason
Thumb slugs became popular...

Today's shells are about 3/8" thick at best...and are more porous...

I don't ever recall having cracking issues with the balls from that era...

So IMO...I think it is possible that the thinner and more porous shells on today's balls
may indeed be a reason for all the cracking issues...

I find it rather ODD that all of a sudden...All the manufacturers are having curing issues...

Shells are about 20% as thick compared to balls of that era...That means boo koo
savings on material...


just my opinion...


I also have an opinion about Obama...oops...lol
Curing issues...all of a sudden all manufacturers are having the same problem...Really now...

"more flexible"...really now...

Well if so....they why are there so many cracking issues...On Today's balls with the
thinner MORE FLEXIBLE covers...

IMO...balls made with thinner covers save the manufacturers MONEY...And the money
they save may OFFSET any cracking issues...

3/8" compared to 1 1/2"...That's a huge difference in raw material...


That's MY OPINION..
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2014, 11:49:57 AM »
Ten years ago it was about $3 a ball savings.

The cheapest way to make balls is core/cover, as you save a lot of labor, but as I stated early it limits rg's and duff's.
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Jesse James

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2014, 12:06:05 PM »

[/quote]Just Rico...Yesterday a customer came in with two old balls from the 90's..

A Piranha and a Beast...Neither one was cracked...And the shells on those balls were
much thicker...In that era most shells were 1 1/2" thick...Which became the reason
Thumb slugs became popular...

Today's shells are about 3/8" thick at best...and are more porous...

I don't ever recall having cracking issues with the balls from that era...

So IMO...I think it is possible that the thinner and more porous shells on today's balls
may indeed be a reason for all the cracking issues...

I find it rather ODD that all of a sudden...All the manufacturers are having curing issues...

Shells are about 20% as thick compared to balls of that era...That means boo koo
savings on material...


just my opinion...


I also have an opinion about Obama...oops...lol
[/quote]

Good post JLS!! This would be my reasoning as well. And I'm not buying the analogy of porous, translating to more flexible either! Porous means more permeable.....as in things, water , oil, air, etc. flowing through them.

In this case it's cracks that are flowing through. The new formulas make chemicals with loosely attached bonds that can more easily be broken. Hence cracks!

On the other hand, it is that same conglomeration of loosely nit chemicals which give these new covers their ability to grip the lanes through oil. So....it's a trade-off.
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milorafferty

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2014, 12:15:24 PM »
Just Rico...Yesterday a customer came in with two old balls from the 90's..

A Piranha and a Beast...Neither one was cracked...And the shells on those balls were
much thicker...In that era most shells were 1 1/2" thick...Which became the reason
Thumb slugs became popular...

Today's shells are about 3/8" thick at best...and are more porous...

I don't ever recall having cracking issues with the balls from that era...

So IMO...I think it is possible that the thinner and more porous shells on today's balls
may indeed be a reason for all the cracking issues...

I find it rather ODD that all of a sudden...All the manufacturers are having curing issues...

Shells are about 20% as thick compared to balls of that era...That means boo koo
savings on material...


just my opinion...


I also have an opinion about Obama...oops...lol


Good post JLS!! This would be my reasoning as well. And I'm not buying the analogy of porous, translating to more flexible either! Porous means more permeable.....as in things, water , oil, air, etc. flowing through them.

In this case it's cracks that are flowing through. The new formulas make chemicals with loosely attached bonds that can more easily be broken. Hence cracks!

On the other hand, it is that same conglomeration of loosely nit chemicals which give these new covers their ability to grip the lanes through oil. So....it's a trade-off.



Exactly, just like there are no 80,000 mile performance tires for cars. Have to give up longevity to get the best performance.


But the ball companies still should own up to the facts instead of trying to tell us how it's "our fault" when a ball cracks.
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Gizmo823

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2014, 01:30:11 PM »
I work in concrete research for our state's DOT, and we work a lot with intentionally adding air to the concrete to increase the porosity so it's more flexible and prevents the contaminants that are going to get into it anyway from damaging it too much.  If something is more dense, once contaminants get into it, they can force apart the object because it IS more dense, and therefore less flexible.  By adding air, you increase the flexibility and the bubbles or air pockets serve as reservoirs for contaminants so they don't force their way into the denser parts and cause cracking. 

No, bowling balls aren't concrete, but the principle remains the same.  Concrete also has several different materials in it with several different expansion and contraction rates.  I just talked to one of my engineers, and two of the biggest things that cause cracking are improper curing and expansion and contraction . .  She said that even if the bowling ball was all one solid material, they would STILL crack if they were exposed to enough temperature changes. 

Quote from: jls on November 05, 2014, 11:33:38 AM
Quote from: Gizmo823 on November 05, 2014, 10:49:24 AM
More porosity in shells mean they should actually crack less since they are less dense and therefore more "flexible."  As technology advances, you will see more performance and most likely more issues.  Increased performance doesn't always mean increased durability, sometimes there's a tradeoff.  And he didn't say they were having curing issues, he said they weren't allowing the cores and balls the time they need to properly cure.  That's an issue with process, not material. 

Quote from: jls on November 05, 2014, 09:55:21 AM
Quote from: JustRico on November 04, 2014, 10:54:40 PM
In my opinion, from what I know of manufacturing, anything made has a natural curing time...so if the time needed is shortened, that doesn't or wouldn't eliminate that necessity...so if the core is still 'changing' or curing and the cover is poured over a changing, 'live' object, something generally gives....thus any crack becomes a gap...the core is pushing the shell away or expands
I do not believe it has anything to do with the shell thickness or porosity of the covers...
Just Rico...Yesterday a customer came in with two old balls from the 90's..

A Piranha and a Beast...Neither one was cracked...And the shells on those balls were
much thicker...In that era most shells were 1 1/2" thick...Which became the reason
Thumb slugs became popular...

Today's shells are about 3/8" thick at best...and are more porous...

I don't ever recall having cracking issues with the balls from that era...

So IMO...I think it is possible that the thinner and more porous shells on today's balls
may indeed be a reason for all the cracking issues...

I find it rather ODD that all of a sudden...All the manufacturers are having curing issues...

Shells are about 20% as thick compared to balls of that era...That means boo koo
savings on material...


just my opinion...


I also have an opinion about Obama...oops...lol
Curing issues...all of a sudden all manufacturers are having the same problem...Really now...

"more flexible"...really now...

Well if so....they why are there so many cracking issues...On Today's balls with the
thinner MORE FLEXIBLE covers...

IMO...balls made with thinner covers save the manufacturers MONEY...And the money
they save may OFFSET any cracking issues...

3/8" compared to 1 1/2"...That's a huge difference in raw material...


That's MY OPINION..
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jls

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2014, 01:44:47 PM »
Gizmo...well I don't know about the roads in your state...But here in Illinois...The
roads FALL APART about every 3 - 5 years...

Maybe they are adding to much air... ;D


All I can say is...That 20 years ago we didn't seem to have a cracking issue...


Now I do agree that rapid temperature change could lead to shells cracking...
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tdub36tjt

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2014, 02:08:19 PM »
I personally think the filler is responsible for a lot of cracks as well. I've seen numerous balls that had a air pockets or some kind of voids in the filler. I've seen it on a few that I've drilled for myself and all 3 have ended up cracking. These voids are pretty common from a certain factory that i see a lot of cracking issues coming from their stuff.....
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Gizmo823

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2014, 02:22:34 PM »
The roads fall apart because they're using cheap rock.  Roads built using granite or quartzite last a while.  The chemicals and salt they use in the winter to deice doesn't help much either. 

20 years ago balls didn't hook either.  You could scratch a VHS tape all you wanted too and would still have a picture, but if you scratch your dvd it skips . . sometimes performance and durability don't go hand in hand. 

Quote from: jls on November 05, 2014, 01:44:47 PM
Gizmo...well I don't know about the roads in your state...But here in Illinois...The
roads FALL APART about every 3 - 5 years...

Maybe they are adding to much air... ;D


All I can say is...That 20 years ago we didn't seem to have a cracking issue...


Now I do agree that rapid temperature change could lead to shells cracking...
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Cracked bowling balls (article)
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2014, 02:48:41 PM »
You Topekans must not be too familiar with frost heave and the resulting pot holes.  Ain't no rock going to stop that.
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