win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Dealing with transition/loss of carry  (Read 5655 times)

bcw1969

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« on: September 01, 2016, 09:43:04 PM »
One of my catch phrases is "As soon as the lanes break down, so do I"...and that was no more evident than my first week of league tonight.  Typically I will attempt to play around the 8 - 10 board(I'm a lefty) and then as the lanes break down I will usually ball down and keep my same line or I will ball down and move my feet and target outside around the 1st arrow or just outside of it.  Tonight at the start of practice I was using my Gladiator solid and knew that it would be just a bit too much ball for what was out there.  Near the end of practice , I balled down to my Blue Gryphon and soon realized I would need to move outside from the get go. Was playing straight up the 5 board and was totally locked in, and had a nice 246 the 1st game.... started the 2nd game with a triple but midway through the 2nd game I totally lost my carry.  It wasn't the same pin each time--that I  can adjust my approach for--I was still  consistently in the pocket but wasn't carrying.   Usually I would ball down at that point, but I felt my Gladiator LE would not be enough, so end of 2nd game I decide to ball up to my Glad solid and cut of my side rotation a bit...was still getting to the pocket but wasn't carrying still.  I missed 2 7 pins that game and ended up with a 204.  Final game I stuck with the glad solid, cutting off the side rotation a bit, but never got locked back in again missed a couple of spares for a 172 for a 622 series.

After the set I was thinking that I should have moved back inside to the 8 - 10 board and maybe balled down to my Gladiator LE to catch oil there that hadn't been taken away yet by me and I  might have had more success.  Overpowering the lane is not an option, and moving way inside and chucking it outside is just not me. Would moving more inside and balling down have been a better way to handle the transition and my loss of carry?

Any insights would be appreciated.

Brad

 

SVstar34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5460
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 10:02:08 PM »
It sounds like cutting down your side rotation when you balled back up to the Glad Solid was your issue. Without seeing anything and understanding the way your shot plays, I'd recommend playing a little further inside and just be firm with it.

Depending on the timing of your missed spares, you also gave up 40-60 total pins with that

bcw1969

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2016, 10:06:41 PM »
If I had kept my normal full side rotation I would not have been able to use the glad solid, I had to cut off the side rotation in that instance to keep it the pocket--I would have gone high with that ball without cutting the side rotation.  I switched to it to try and find carry again, and I didn't.

Brad

todvan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2016, 08:39:27 AM »
Good question!  I am also a lefty and struggle to learn to play the transition.  Since it's only me or a couple of us on the left side, the lanes never make it through transition to open up.  I usually start with a semi dull solid, arcing ball for control.  When I start to lose carry, I keep my same target and move my feet a board left, but once this goes away, I think the fronts are too dry at the target board for this ball. Moving inside with the same ball doesn't work because there is not enough backend to get good entry angle.  So I usually go to a ball that is cleaner thru the front but gives more backend. Because transition is still happening and not opened up yet, this move gives me a good look, but is less controlled. A 1 board miss won't carry.   Not sure where to go from here....anyone else have suggestions???
MOTIV Jackal LE .................40 x 4.5 x 40 p2.5
MOTIV Revolt Vengeance......45 x 4.0 x 50 p3
MOTIV Forza GT ..................50 x 4.0 x 70 p2.5
MOTIV Sigma Sting..............50 x 4.0 x 45 p3

mechanic81

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 08:56:34 AM »
i am kinda curious about this myself. i am a righty but i have a lefty on my team and know exactly what you all are talking about it seems to me that with the righty players our side goes into transition and then dries out and we move left however our transition doesnt last very long on most conditions but with the lefties where there isnt as many people on that side you deal with the transition much longer from my point of view so the struggle continues to be much longer from watching the lefty on my team he tries to get the ball to fwd roll more and get the ball to belly  up to the pocket .his carry % is down but he seems to do well with that when the lanes start to change.

2handedvolcano

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
  • No I won't put a hole in the lane, Mr. Proprietor!
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 08:58:19 AM »
To be honest this just one of the many problems that two handed bowling solves. One can never generate as more power with two hands as 1 arm.
Will expand arsenal after I polish my spares.

LookingForALeftyWall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 658
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2016, 09:03:41 AM »
It's counter intuitive but an alternative that I have been using is moving in and balling UP.

In most centers, there is very little underlying friction on the lanes for lefties to take advantage of.  The area we hit is much smaller than righties and usually closer to the gutter).  Once we move inside, we're dead (unless we're Ryan Ciminelli and can overpower the lane).

Using a stronger ball from the inside will give you the power to get the ball to dig in, in an area of the lane that we're not usually in and will be strong enough to get recovery and to stay away from flat 7's.

lefty50

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1822
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 09:48:57 AM »
Great conversation. After having this exact issue last night (who am I kidding... everynight), I was going to open an identical thread, perfect timing.
I have the same problem but it is perhaps worse for me since I have a rev rate around 220. There are some nights where I can ball up and move in with a Scandal, but not usually... 7 pin city no matter what I do. Most of my equipment is strong, early, and smooth which does not help either. I'm not quite sure I can agree with the term transition for an evening where there is one lefty on a pair, but I understand what you mean. Whoever said they believe the transition never fully completes is exactly correct.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 10:09:07 AM by lefty50 »

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2779
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 01:08:53 PM »
What you are talking about is not at all unique to the left side.  Your problem is one of being a lower rev player on a typical house shot that transitions.  As a right hander it can happen quicker to me and I can take advantage of the wear area inside to move toward 15 board but carry can still be an issue.  One thing I will say is that I always ball up when I move in.

lefty50

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1822
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2016, 03:03:47 PM »
It may not be unique, but it definitely is different. The left does lack friction, never really completes transition, and has unique characteristics. If I had the proverbial nickel for every night I'm in the middle of game 3 before the ball bends, while 70+ year old right handers are walking it right up to the pocket and everyone else on the right has switched to their spare ball for strikes.... Sigh. I like the ball up, move in concept though....

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2779
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2016, 04:56:00 PM »
If you cant find friction to the left you arent on the kind of house shot we see.  Last year every lefty in our league was over 225 and they never had to get right of 10 board. 

lefty50

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1822
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2016, 05:45:57 PM »
Ah, the stuff dreams are made of... :).. It's all good...

Strapper_Squared

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4231
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2016, 11:43:52 AM »
The fact that you are hitting the pocket, but not carrying is telling you that you have the wrong angle...due to a combination of the specific ball and part of the lane you are playing.  The trick is to find the friction (outside of 10?, Outside of 5?, Etc.), Then adjust your angle getting to the friction...generally moving inside finds more head oil, thus saving energy for the backend.  Matching this with the right coverstocks (strong pearls or hybridscome to mind), and you should be able to get back into the groove.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2016, 08:32:43 AM »
Add me to the "ball up when moving in" crowd.  Though not a lefty, I have seen many bowlers with lower revs struggle when they have to move in.  Not enough hand to carry well.  Most common correction is to stay in the oil longer, but this means the ball will have to recover fast and stronger.  This is the reason for the use of a stronger ball when moving in. 

Another option to consider is to treat the THS as a sport shot.  I know it isn't the best option, but depending on the condition of the shot, it could be your best option.  Stay away from the dry to the outside (outside 10) and focus on the dry at the end of the pattern.  Not every shot will allow this, but I would at least test the waters.  Don't open your angles too much plus you will likely need to use a weaker ball than usual since you don't want to overreact on the backend.

And for bcw1969, I would reconsider your rotation when moving in.  By nature, your rotation will have to be higher when moving in to ensure the ball comes back with the correct entry angle.  I typically lower my rotation angle the more direct I play.  When my launch angle increases, my rotation typically increases also. 

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2779
Re: Dealing with transition/loss of carry
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2016, 04:08:33 PM »
You always give good advice spmc.  Just to expand on going more direct like you would on sport patterns,  I think the biggest mistake lower rev players make is playing too much out angle on house shots.  I  call it out hooking your rev rate and it is the surest way I know to have chronic carry problems.  Most people think more hook means more carry and there is typically plenty of free hook on house shots, even for us low rev guys.  The truth is that maintaining axis rotation will maximize carry.  Unfortunately, knowing this and being able play more direct can be difficult, especially when factoring in speed limitations many of us face. 
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 07:46:03 PM by avabob »