BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Gizmo823 on May 16, 2014, 12:05:26 PM
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First of all, I realize a lot of the allure of the tournament is that you only have one shot at it. It makes everything that happens just that much more impressive instead of saying, "Well, 7th time's the charm." But with several empty lanes per squad, with bowling dropping off, with the tournament itself getting fewer and fewer entries, I'd like to see them offer re-entries, or maybe at least debate the idea.
Most of the time bowling is a low-income deal. Guys go out there and may hit it big on brackets, but it's just a one time deal. Imagine being able to spend a week out there and make your year's worth of income. Prize money for the tournament would go through the roof, imagine first place in singles being worth what they pay out for a PBA tournament or more? That also equals a LOT of extra revenue for the host city's businesses.
What would be the cons? Yeah it would suck to go out there and be up against bracket sharks every squad, but you about can't avoid that now anyway. Yeah I'm sure winning scores would go up and records would be reset pretty often. But how cool would it be to maybe go in March, bowl a week, watch scores, and then go give it another shot in June? I'd say whenever you bowl, only the last time you bowl counts for placement.
The idea just hit me, so I haven't really thought it through much. Go ahead and dig in.
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I like the term bracket sharks. I feel like they would definitely be lurking in every single squad.
I feel like people could move the location and make a living off them if they wanted.
How about limit to 2 or 3 entries? Still sounds fair to me.
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The only ones it would really benefit are the locals...few people are going to be in a position to take the additional time off from work much less want to spend money to make multiple trips to whatever city/town is hosting in a given year. Let's face it...would you really have made multiple trips to someplace like Billings or Baton Rouge or Corpus or Wichita, especially knowing you were burning a chunk of your vacation time?
Even for those of us with comfortable incomes, travel to some of those places is not high on the list to do once much less multiple times...not to mention the whole getting things in order to take off for a week at a time.
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The CA USBC Open went to this model this year.
I would not want "unlimited", but at least let us bowl each event twice.
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2 or 3 entries sounds reasonable. I figured unlimited would be extreme, but I'd have loved to have stayed an extra day or two and given it an extra few shots. Yeah I realize if you aren't doing well in brackets it could also cost you quite a bit more, but that's a risk everyone takes.
I realize not everyone could take advantage of it, but there are tons of people who can't even go in the first place. I'm sure it would also drastically raise the low to cash numbers. It might not affect the top of the scoreboard much though. Lol and maybe it's just because I wish I could be there every day of the tournament.
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Bad idea as a few top bowlers would dominate the tournament and brackets making cashing more difficult for the ordinary league bowler
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Don't they already?
And since you can only place once, whether they shoot 750 or 780 in singles, they're still beating the 550 of the average league bowler . .
Bad idea as a few top bowlers would dominate the tournament and brackets making cashing more difficult for the ordinary league bowler
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The only ones it would really benefit are the locals...few people are going to be in a position to take the additional time off from work much less want to spend money to make multiple trips to whatever city/town is hosting in a given year.
This would definitely be one of the negatives against a re-entry proposal. That, and "bracket sharks" have been mentioned, and such local and area "sharks" would be able to pick and choose which squads are there for easy bracket "pickings."
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Don't they already?
And since you can only place once, whether they shoot 750 or 780 in singles, they're still beating the 550 of the average league bowler . .
... but there is only a small percentage of bowlers who could/would roll 750+ no matter how many shots they had at it.
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The only ones it would really benefit are the locals...few people are going to be in a position to take the additional time off from work much less want to spend money to make multiple trips to whatever city/town is hosting in a given year.
This would definitely be one of the negatives against a re-entry proposal. That, and "bracket sharks" have been mentioned, and such local and area "sharks" would be able to pick and choose which squads are there for easy bracket "pickings."
I don't see how they would be able to do that. Most of us have a hard enough time staying away from the 7 AM and 10:30 PM Minors as it is.
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If I am going to travel 20+ hours by car or a long plane flight....add hotel and possibly a rental car....I would be more likely to bowl a 2nd or 3rd time while there. One of the reasons I have not gone lately is the $$ spent to travel such a long distance for 1 chance in each event makes no sense for me financially unless I finish VERY high in at least one event. I would be more likely to travel every year if I could enter at least twice in each event.
3835
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I think this idea has some merit. It might help increase entries. I would definately say let's take the "unlimited" entries off the table now. I know some State tournaments allow you bowl additional Team events, but don't know of any that allow additional D/S entries.
There are multiple ways to look at cashing....you can allow people to cash multiple times in team and doubles if you force them to change a minimum number of team members, and bowl with a different partner the 2nd time around or make them stay the same and only cash once. If you say you can only cash once....do you take their highest score, their first score, last score, etc. And what about All Events....do you take their 3 highest series, the first 3, last 3. And what about the year long side pots and Super brackets. How do handle paying for and paying out for these items? Such as 30 Clean, High Game sidepots, etc. As long as you spell the rules out specifically around this, it might work. You will always have people complaining no how you structure it though.
Taking all that, and probably other things I haven't thought of, this would be my proposal:
You can bowl a maximum of 2 team events. The 2nd team event must have at least 3 players different from your first team entry. You may cash multiple times in team event.
You can bowl a maximum of 2 Doubles events. THe 2nd doubles event must be with a different partner than the first. You may cash multiple times in doubles
You can bowl a maximum of 2 Singles events. You may only cash once in Singles. Your highest score will be your singles event score.
All Events consists of the first series you bowl in each event. For example if on Day 1 you bowl 2 team events, Day 2 you bowl 1 D/S event,and Day 3 you bowl 2nd D/S event. Your AE score will be your first team event on Day 1 and your D/S scores from Day 2. You may only cash once in All Events.
Sidepots will now be per event. So instead of paying $10 for all 3 events for the 30 clean, or 3-6-9 Strike Jackpot....it will $3 per event (thinking maybe make it $5 so more even, not sure on that). Super Side pots are already per event, so they can stay at $25.
Super Brackets are a tough one. You can't allow people to enter twice or potentially they could wind up bowling against themselves somewhere down the line. I have two options on this one and I am torn. You can handle like AE, using your first series in each event and keep the cost at $25. Or you can use this as a way to generate interest in multiple entries....raise the price to $30 or $35 and let people use their highest series in each event.
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I'd be for two entries.
Find a doubles partner and go bowl singles/doubles twice. Id be happy wih that.
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Placement would be the last event you bowl. Last 3 sets equal all events. That way people don't have a decent first round and then basically get a couple more "free shots" at doing better. Gotta have the risk in there of possibly doing worse. I like the idea of the opportunity to bowl more than once, but I don't like the idea of "do-overs." I think you still need the pressure to do well every set rather than, "Oh well, if I suck this time, I still have a couple more shots at it." And I don't like it being the first set that counts for all events, because then the rest of the time you have nothing to shoot for after that.
Just like everything else, Super Brackets are good for the only qualifying set you bowl, 3-6-9, 30 clean, etc. Those you would enter once. Brackets would be the only thing you could collect for every time you bowl.
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Placement would be the last event you bowl. Last 3 sets equal all events. That way people don't have a decent first round and then basically get a couple more "free shots" at doing better. Gotta have the risk in there of possibly doing worse.
... but has there ever been a bowling tournament in which a subsequent re-entry with a lower score results in the first score being wiped out? And do you think that USBC would ever consider such a "radical" change?
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There are multiple ways to look at cashing....you can allow people to cash multiple times in team and doubles if you force them to change a minimum number of team members, and bowl with a different partner the 2nd time around or make them stay the same and only cash once.
Dear jorge300:
True ... but, for instance, that would allow Jeff Richgels and his cross-filed team to "rotate" their 10 players into multiple "eligibility" within their own group ... and wouldn't that be of concern to a number of other tournament entrants?
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I agree with being able to compete in each event twice. I think you would have to set a maximum number of times as this would prevent the local bowlers from entering every weekend if they so choose. If you made 2 the maximum then I think it you might get some people to increase their stay by a day or two so they can bowl twice and it wouldn’t require another trip later in the tournament if you were bowling say 5 times. This might also help out some of the other tournaments such as the BTM, BJ and 40 frame game.
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You already have the BJ for guys who want the extra action, and it allows almost unlimited re entries. Add a 3 man event to it if you want, but don't cheapen the national tournament, while creating an unfair advantage for some, and a logistical nightmare for others
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I would like to have another shot at it while there. It would make it more worth it to me. It usually costs me about a grand to go when all is said and done. Don't have any way to practice on the patterns ahead of time.
I've never entered brackets, so not really sure how that would enter into it.
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When our local city tournament went to allowing reentries, I remember one of our better bowlers commenting that rather than a championship competition we were going to a "bowl till you win" format. I happen to agree with that sentiment.
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If multiple entries were allowed, how long would it take for a number of bowlers to soar past Joe Norris' all-time ABC/USBC tournament pinfall of 123,770?
Also, there are 15 current members of the tournament's "100,000 pins club" ... but how rapidly would that number increase if entrants had the opportunity to keep re-entering?
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I don't like the idea but I'm a traditionalist.
If it was allowed. I would make the bowler bowl team, doubles and singles. That would be their all events score and would count towards lifetime pins and average.
Any re-entry would have to come after these were bowled. No more than 2 team members could be on the same team more than once.
No re-entry in doubles and singles. It would be a nightmare in doubles where a guy might cash 4 or 5 times (or more). You couldn't limit a person to 1 cash doubles if they had multiple different partners.
Re-entry would favor the big pocket bowlers even more. If they showed up with 6 teams they would have all sorts of options for team re-entry and double/singles.
Like Avabob said there is enough side action tournaments that allow multiple entry let the main tournament alone.