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Author Topic: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open  (Read 4399 times)

Gizmo823

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Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« on: May 16, 2014, 12:05:26 PM »
First of all, I realize a lot of the allure of the tournament is that you only have one shot at it.  It makes everything that happens just that much more impressive instead of saying, "Well, 7th time's the charm."  But with several empty lanes per squad, with bowling dropping off, with the tournament itself getting fewer and fewer entries, I'd like to see them offer re-entries, or maybe at least debate the idea. 

Most of the time bowling is a low-income deal.  Guys go out there and may hit it big on brackets, but it's just a one time deal.  Imagine being able to spend a week out there and make your year's worth of income.  Prize money for the tournament would go through the roof, imagine first place in singles being worth what they pay out for a PBA tournament or more?  That also equals a LOT of extra revenue for the host city's businesses. 

What would be the cons?  Yeah it would suck to go out there and be up against bracket sharks every squad, but you about can't avoid that now anyway.  Yeah I'm sure winning scores would go up and records would be reset pretty often.  But how cool would it be to maybe go in March, bowl a week, watch scores, and then go give it another shot in June?  I'd say whenever you bowl, only the last time you bowl counts for placement. 

The idea just hit me, so I haven't really thought it through much.  Go ahead and dig in. 
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MrNickRo

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 12:18:43 PM »
I like the term bracket sharks.  I feel like they would definitely be lurking in every single squad. 

I feel like people could move the location and make a living off them if they wanted. 

How about limit to 2 or 3 entries?  Still sounds fair to me.

michelle

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 12:19:39 PM »
The only ones it would really benefit are the locals...few people are going to be in a position to take the additional time off from work much less want to spend money to make multiple trips to whatever city/town is hosting in a given year.  Let's face it...would you really have made multiple trips to someplace like Billings or Baton Rouge or Corpus or Wichita, especially knowing you were burning a chunk of your vacation time?

Even for those of us with comfortable incomes, travel to some of those places is not high on the list to do once much less multiple times...not to mention the whole getting things in order to take off for a week at a time.   

milorafferty

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 12:19:49 PM »
The CA USBC Open went to this model this year.

I would not want "unlimited", but at least let us bowl each event twice.
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Gizmo823

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2014, 12:30:40 PM »
2 or 3 entries sounds reasonable.  I figured unlimited would be extreme, but I'd have loved to have stayed an extra day or two and given it an extra few shots.  Yeah I realize if you aren't doing well in brackets it could also cost you quite a bit more, but that's a risk everyone takes. 

I realize not everyone could take advantage of it, but there are tons of people who can't even go in the first place.  I'm sure it would also drastically raise the low to cash numbers.  It might not affect the top of the scoreboard much though.  Lol and maybe it's just because I wish I could be there every day of the tournament. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Brandon Riley

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2014, 12:35:12 PM »
Bad idea as a few top bowlers would dominate the tournament and brackets making cashing more difficult for the ordinary league bowler
Brandon Riley
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Gizmo823

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 12:48:12 PM »
Don't they already?

And since you can only place once, whether they shoot 750 or 780 in singles, they're still beating the 550 of the average league bowler . .

Bad idea as a few top bowlers would dominate the tournament and brackets making cashing more difficult for the ordinary league bowler
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Mighty Fish

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2014, 01:53:21 PM »
The only ones it would really benefit are the locals...few people are going to be in a position to take the additional time off from work much less want to spend money to make multiple trips to whatever city/town is hosting in a given year.
This would definitely be one of the negatives against a re-entry proposal. That, and "bracket sharks" have been mentioned, and such local and area "sharks" would be able to pick and choose which squads are there for easy bracket "pickings."

Mighty Fish

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 01:55:24 PM »
Don't they already?

And since you can only place once, whether they shoot 750 or 780 in singles, they're still beating the 550 of the average league bowler . .
... but there is only a small percentage of bowlers who could/would roll 750+ no matter how many shots they had at it.

milorafferty

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2014, 02:14:12 PM »
The only ones it would really benefit are the locals...few people are going to be in a position to take the additional time off from work much less want to spend money to make multiple trips to whatever city/town is hosting in a given year.
This would definitely be one of the negatives against a re-entry proposal. That, and "bracket sharks" have been mentioned, and such local and area "sharks" would be able to pick and choose which squads are there for easy bracket "pickings."

I don't see how they would be able to do that. Most of us have a hard enough time staying away from the 7 AM and 10:30 PM Minors as it is.
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3835

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 03:07:27 PM »
If I am going to travel 20+ hours by car or a long plane flight....add hotel and possibly a rental car....I would be more likely to bowl a 2nd or 3rd time while there. One of the reasons I have not gone lately is the $$ spent to travel such a long distance for 1 chance in each event makes no sense for me financially unless I finish VERY high in at least one event. I would be more likely to travel every year if I could enter at least twice in each event.

3835

Jorge300

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 03:35:08 PM »
I think this idea has some merit. It might help increase entries. I would definately say let's take the "unlimited" entries off the table now. I know some State tournaments allow you bowl additional Team events, but don't know of any that allow additional D/S entries.
 
There are multiple ways to look at cashing....you can allow people to cash multiple times in team and doubles if you force them to change a minimum number of team members, and bowl with a different partner the 2nd time around or make them stay the same and only cash once. If you say you can only cash once....do you take their highest score, their first score, last score, etc. And what about All Events....do you take their 3 highest series, the first 3, last 3. And what about the year long side pots and Super brackets. How do handle paying for and paying out for these items? Such as 30 Clean, High Game sidepots, etc. As long as you spell the rules out specifically around this, it might work. You will always have people complaining no how you structure it though.
 
Taking all that, and probably other things I haven't thought of, this would be my proposal:
 
You can bowl a maximum of 2 team events. The 2nd team event must have at least 3 players different from your first team entry. You may cash multiple times in team event.
You can bowl a maximum of 2 Doubles events. THe 2nd doubles event must be with a different partner than the first. You may cash multiple times in doubles
You can bowl a maximum of 2 Singles events. You may only cash once in Singles. Your highest score will be your singles event score.
All Events consists of the first series you bowl in each event. For example if on Day 1 you bowl 2 team events, Day 2 you bowl 1 D/S event,and Day 3 you bowl 2nd D/S event. Your AE score will be your first team event on Day 1 and your D/S scores from Day 2. You may only cash once in All Events.
Sidepots will now be per event. So instead of paying $10 for all 3 events for the 30 clean, or 3-6-9 Strike Jackpot....it will $3 per event (thinking maybe make it $5 so more even, not sure on that). Super Side pots are already per event, so they can stay at $25. 
Super Brackets are a tough one. You can't allow people to enter twice or potentially they could wind up bowling against themselves somewhere down the line. I have two options on this one and I am torn. You can handle like AE, using your first series in each event and keep the cost at $25. Or you can use this as a way to generate interest in multiple entries....raise the price to $30 or $35 and let people use their highest series in each event.
Jorge300

kidlost2000

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 03:54:13 PM »
I'd be for two entries.

Find a doubles partner and go bowl singles/doubles twice. Id be happy wih that.
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Gizmo823

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2014, 03:57:07 PM »
Placement would be the last event you bowl.  Last 3 sets equal all events.  That way people don't have a decent first round and then basically get a couple more "free shots" at doing better.  Gotta have the risk in there of possibly doing worse.  I like the idea of the opportunity to bowl more than once, but I don't like the idea of "do-overs."  I think you still need the pressure to do well every set rather than, "Oh well, if I suck this time, I still have a couple more shots at it."  And I don't like it being the first set that counts for all events, because then the rest of the time you have nothing to shoot for after that. 

Just like everything else, Super Brackets are good for the only qualifying set you bowl, 3-6-9, 30 clean, etc.  Those you would enter once.  Brackets would be the only thing you could collect for every time you bowl. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Mighty Fish

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Re: Debate: Allow unlimited re-entries to USBC Open
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2014, 04:41:50 PM »
Placement would be the last event you bowl.  Last 3 sets equal all events.  That way people don't have a decent first round and then basically get a couple more "free shots" at doing better.  Gotta have the risk in there of possibly doing worse.
... but has there ever been a bowling tournament in which a subsequent re-entry with a lower score results in the first score being wiped out? And do you think that USBC would ever consider such a "radical" change?