win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math  (Read 10463 times)

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
1990 - Men's Classic League
$15 - 28 teams - 36 weeks
Lineage = $4 a week
.50 sec fee
10.50 prize fund per bowler
---------------------
10.50 x 28 teams x 5 bowlers x 36 weeks = $ 52,920 prize fund
each bowler paying $540 for a share of nearly $53,000


2013 - Men's Classic League
$25 - 18 teams (ten have quit) - 36 weeks
Lineage = $13.50 a week
$1 sec fee
10.50 prize fund per bowler
---------------------
10.50 x 18 x 5 x 36 = $34,200
each bowler now paying $900 for a share of $34,200


End result is each bowler almost paying twice as much as they did at bowling's peak for a 35% lower price fund.

Like I said - simple math.  Double the cost for 1/3 less payout opportunity

I think I can guess why some people quit......
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 04:12:17 PM by txbowler »

 

nospareball

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Member = Simple Math
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 04:13:14 PM »
1990 payout = $380 per bowler on average
2013 payout = $380 per bowler on average

$15 dollars in 1990 is worth about $26 dollars now

Seems like the math doesn't agree with your conclusion....

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11166
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 04:19:22 PM »
How many people actually bowl league for the money?

I have one league where the payout is worth it, but the others are more for the fun/social part.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 04:49:05 PM »

1990 payout = $380 per bowler on average
2013 payout = $380 per bowler on average

But how much are you paying for that same payout? $900 per league vs $540 before.  That was my whole point. 

If you are justifying your expenses:  why do keep investing that $900 when you don't having any increasing chance at increased payout because the average payout never grew.  Just the cost.


The other thing this leads to is: all leagues need donators.  Donators is what makes all money leagues and tournaments function.  As leagues shrink, there are less donators.  Without them, the top 1/2 of the league does not make as much money.

As for the poster who asked about bowling for money.

I don't know any competitive 210+ average bowler who is not in it for the money.

The ones who quit making money or at least covering their prize fund contribution quit.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 04:51:06 PM by txbowler »

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11166
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 04:56:00 PM »
I know a lot of 210+ average bowlers who aren't in it "for the money". It a fun night out with friends. Would they like to win the league? Of course, but it's not all about the money.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Steven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7680
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 06:04:56 PM »
I know a lot of 210+ average bowlers who aren't in it "for the money". It a fun night out with friends. Would they like to win the league? Of course, but it's not all about the money.

A big +1.

Most of the core returning teams in my scratch league are the middle of the road bunch. Thy are there mostly for the competition and to hang out with friends.

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 07:02:38 PM »
Glad you have.that. We had 4 teams quit last year. League sec contracted team to ask why. No chance to win, tired of losing money was a common reply.

Steven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7680
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 07:46:32 PM »
Glad you have.that. We had 4 teams quit last year. League sec contracted team to ask why. No chance to win, tired of losing money was a common reply.


There are consequences to having a bad league structure where the lower tier teams have no chance to sneak in and compete. You're experiencing them.

TREP

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 47
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 07:55:24 PM »
IF THE LOWER TIER TEAMS GET HANDICAP THEY CAN COMPETE WITH ANY TEAM IF THEY ARE ANY GOOD.I BOWL IN A LEAGUE THAT HAS A TEAM THAT HAS GUYS THAT WERE ON THE PRO TOUR. WE USUALLY BEAT THEM BECAUSE OF HANDICAP. PLUS, WE BOWL UP TO THEIR LEVEL WHEN WE BOWL THEM. I AM FAIRLY NEW TO BOWLING (BOWLED 3 YEARS IN LEAGUE 30 YEARS AGO AND JUST COMPLETED MY 4TH YEAR SINCE RETURNING) I SEE MANY THINGS THAT PEOPLE THAT NEVER STOPPED DON'T SEE BECAUSE THEY WERE ALWAYS THERE ANY WENT THROUGH THE CHANGES.BALLS, LANE CONDITIONS, AND THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE BOWLING CENTERS HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH WHAT I SEE THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM 30 YEARS AGO. AND, NOT ALL OF THEM ARE FOR THE BETTER.

swingset

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Captain of the Short Bus
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 08:43:49 PM »
Prize money is a very small, very nichy, very select reason that leagues are declining.

Mostly it's that this is a crap economy, people are busier and poorer than they have been in years, factories and blue-collar sponsored bowling is dying, and people view bowling more as recreation than sport.

None of that has anything to do with prize money.
The only sports worth playing serve alcohol during gameplay.

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2013, 10:38:30 PM »

you all must live and bowl in different environments.  here in dfw there are not any high competition funzie leagues where the league champs do not make a profit. there are several 30+ team competitive leagues where probably half the league has $50 to $200 a night in side bets on the line every week.

completebowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5491
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 11:37:28 PM »
Lots of money up in these parts for bowling. And that is where the bowlers flock. Big money leagues are growing....everyone else is declining.

Now most would say they are there for the competition....but that begs the question....what are they competing for?

Yup.....the money. And the title....but the money is a big influence since only one team can win the title. The Great 8 league I report about on my website has over $160,000 in the prize fund. Biggest money league in Detroit

Stan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 667
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2013, 10:18:34 AM »
Put a lot of money on top, and they will come.  Thats the way it is in my area.  Low paying leagues are declining, but the more money on top are going strong.

If you are going to bowl in a "MONEY' league, then the top team, at least, should make money, if not, just bowl for trophies and bragging rights.

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2013, 10:50:39 AM »
You are COMPLETELY IGNORING the reason for the decline.  If the money was so good, WHY DID PEOPLE QUIT?!  League fees rise with lineage, there was NO reason for anyone to quit, because given the same number of teams, the money STAYS THE SAME OR INCREASES.  If the league stays at 28 teams, the money NEVER CHANGES.  Money didn't make people quit, some other factor did.  Money doesn't leave if people don't leave.  Refigure that second figure at 28 teams, and refigure the first one at 18.   Your view is incredibly one dimensional and simplistic.  Loss of money didn't have anything to do with it, people left, and took their money with them, THAT'S where the money went. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Declining League Membership/ USBC Membership = Simple Math
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2013, 11:00:37 AM »
Money paid in equals money paid out.  If measures weren't taken to increase the prize fund at the same rate the lineage increased, that's the bowlers fault.  And what other sports actually pay out?  There's people that play 4 or 5 softball leagues a week in the summer, some people golf twice a week, or play baseball or flag football with ZERO PAYOUT.  I can't think of any other sport that you get money back from besides golf leagues, and even then it's a pittance because green fees are expensive (not saying unfairly so, just the nature of the game).  Lineage of 13.50 to come bowl 3 games over 3 hours is NOTHING.  Completely get rid of the prize funds and just bowl for fun, like you would do in every other sport and it wouldn't be so expensive.  Yes you put more money in every week, but you also get money back at the end of the year. 

If the prize fund is still 10.50 per person per week 23 years later, while everything has gone up, that is the league's fault, not the economy.  It seems to me that somebody hasn't been doing the math right for the last 23 years.  Yes it IS very simple math.  If costs increase, but prize fund contribution doesn't, well gee, that's gonna result in worse margins . . wow, brilliant conclusion. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?