Author Topic: Destroying a lane (Read 6889 times)

Pinbuster · « **on:** December 05, 2011, 01:57:04 AM »

On the PBA show they implied that Mika had used the practice period, not to improve his shot, but to disrupt the shot of the other players by throwing sanded balls and plastic to try and move oil around.

I find this repugnant.

If I didn't think I could out execute my opponent then I would just as soon lose.

What would someone would think if I was bowling a left handed bowlers and would put a towel on my chest and do a Machuga flop down the leftside of the lane during practice and soak up all the oil for the first 15 feet?

They really shouldn't allow practice on the TV lanes or at the very least re-oil after practice is complete.

ccrider · « **Reply #31 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:17:45 PM »

Some of you guys are living in a world of dreams. Warm up period is just that. A player can use what ever the rules say is legal to use during the period. For some, it may be better if no warm up shots are thrown by any person. Does that mean that everyone should refrain from bowling during warm up for fear that he is going to blow the person's line.

Who is to say how one can approach the lanes during warm up, in an effort to break them down. These guys are professionals. At their level, they should be able to adapt if they expect to win. If one pro gets an edge by moving the oil around during practice by use of a legal ball, so be it. Otherwise, set rules that dictate how many balls one can throw during practice, what the ball surface has to be, and then limit the number of throws across each arrow. Please. Get a life.

And no, it is not a moral or ethical issue. It is called legal competition. If you are so feeble minded to you believe that what your opponent throws during warm up is going to negate your chances of winning, you need to find another game to play. Read the lanes, figure out the adjustment, pull your skirt back down, and bowl-------SISSSSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:35:26 PM »

I dont think it really worked any ways. Mika was playing the same area as Rash. If he really wanted to win by more he would have made that easy spare at the beginning of the match.

"1 of 1."

trash heap · « **Reply #33 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:49:48 PM »

Sorry, but it should no longer be called practice or warmup. Practice and Warmup on another pair. This is more like a "Prep Stage". It's very important to the match. The PBA needs to go into further detail of what these guys are doing during this time. It needs to be more than "he was throwing plastic and a heavy oil ball".

They should tell us and demonstrate the "desired effect" the bowler is trying to achieve. Show us the line he is throwing down, how many times did he throw down that line. Show diagrams, show what part of lane is being affected. Details...Details...Details! We can handle it.

After the "so called practice" is over they should interview each bowler, and have them explain what they did on the lane, and what they hope to accomplish by doing it. And Randy should be right there listening. Being the objective critic to agree or disagree with their comments. If a competitior is stating they were working their line, Randy should be able to state, "Well his line was here all week, where he was successful, I don't why he would switch his lines, but it sure looks like he is trying destroy his opponent's line".

Sunshine n Lollipops · « **Reply #34 on:** December 05, 2011, 07:55:53 PM »

Brian Voss had a hissy fit about this practice 20 years ago. Nothing was done about it then, nothing will be done about it now.

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

completebowler · « **Reply #35 on:** December 05, 2011, 10:45:20 PM »

Not quite 20 years ago but yeah Voss thought sanded balls should be banned from being used on TV for this purpose. But I wouldn't call it a hissy fit.

Voss's comments after that incident.

OK, you want to know what happened. 15 minutes of practice, a guy takes a dull sanded ball, and plays right up 7-8-9 towards the 3 pin. In all of my matches, tv, etc. I have never experienced someone purposely not trying to strike, but to build a stripe to bank off when the lights come on. 2 minutes before the show starts, move 10-13 left, and throw it right. This dictates how the lane will be played. When someone does this, they are saying, you will not play right of where I am doing this. You will play left of what I am doing. I don't agree with this. Unfortunately, there's no rule to prevent it. I just couldn't believe what I was seeing right in front of me. How this is supposed to be the most prestigious tournament, yet integrity takes a back seat. It's not his fault, he bowled great all week. Nothing against him, just the rules that allow integrity to be destroyed. What did I say into the camera? BAN SANDING BOWLING BALLS. Read my lips,

Enough said,

I apologize for my behavior, I love this game, just want to see it played fair

BV

And the PBA shouldn't change the rules now. Guys are allowed to throw plastic to help create hold at the end of the pattern...why shouldn't someone be able to build a wall up to create area?

Sunshine n Lollipops wrote on 12/5/2011 8:55 PM:
Brian Voss had a hissy fit about this practice 20 years ago. Nothing was done about it then, nothing will be done about it now.

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI

All Star Bowling & Trophy

completebowler · « **Reply #36 on:** December 05, 2011, 11:03:26 PM »

It was only in 2005 that the incident with Voss happened S'n L'. Here is the game with Voss and Loschetter part 1. Here is part 2.

Voss tried to get around the hole in the pattern and then fast tracked and made a comment to the camera. I thought it was a moment of frustration but not a terrible display. Voss felt like he had a look at a major until Loschetter destroyed his line. He made a bad decision to try to weaken his hand position and stay out there vs. trying to jump inside.

ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI

All Star Bowling & Trophy

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #37 on:** December 06, 2011, 04:20:43 AM »

It is a legal tactic, but destroy the little integrity the sport (still) has. It is as if you have the final NASCAR race: two drivers are close in points, so the leading one decides to torpedo the direct opponent to catch the title in the first round. "Ups, I lost the car...". Do you consider THIS a great championship? Would the public accept it? BTW, this case occured in Formula 1 in the 90ies, and it is anything I'd call sportsmanship, legal or not. If you are SO desparate to take infathomable means to win, then something is fundamentally wrong.

Yes, ban practicing on the TV lanes, except for 3 shots per person. Warmup on seperate lanes is IMO O.K. and a must, but anything else is simply not good for the sport as such.

DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

Russell · « **Reply #38 on:** December 06, 2011, 07:36:48 AM »

I think a good comparison here would be a "gentleman's game" like golf....

Is it illegal to walk on your opponent's line on the green?....No

Is it illegal to cough in the backswing?....No

Is it illegal to stand close to them while hitting their shot?....No

Yet for some reason it never happens....the players respect the traditions and etiquette of the game and choose to beat each other by making fewer strokes than their opponent. Bowling is a game motivated by greed and not played by gentlemen. We say things like "learn to adjust"...and "deal with the distractions" (water bottle incident). Then we wonder why people laugh at our sport and think it's a joke....

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 06, 2011, 07:57:49 AM »

Since this is just warmup and people are worried about someone destroying the lanes why not make them practice or warmup on a pair of lanes they arent going to bowl during the tournament and put different shots on both lanes... It would be interesting to see how fast they could adjust without knowing the shot...

2 Fingers That Converted to 5 Fingers
I Am The 3 Fingers Nightmare

Edited by Zanatos1914 on 12/6/2011 at 9:01 AM

tommygn · « **Reply #40 on:** December 06, 2011, 09:00:26 AM »

What makes it an ethical discussion, is not that Mika apparently tried to "create" a better reaction for himself, but more so tried to ruin the shot for the other bowlers. At least, that seems to be the way it was portrayed on TV. There is a big difference between the two. Since no one knows Mika's intent, speculation is all we have.

Tommy Gollick
Storm Regional/Pro Shop staff
Red Crown Pro Shop Harrisburg, PA
stormbowling.com

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #41 on:** December 06, 2011, 09:17:07 AM »

And speculation is no good for a sport which has rather poor credibility...

DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

batbowler · « **Reply #42 on:** December 06, 2011, 09:48:41 AM »

What about the teams that bowl the National with sanded bowling balls to burn a hole in the shot and put up big numbers? It happens every year and it's legal!!! If you go to Kegel or get coaching before bowling Nationals to use a dull/sanded ball to open up the shot right of where you want to play to create area!! Those that can do and those who can't complain!!! Just saying, Bruce

Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will do some "Damn Good Bowling", be a "DV8" and not turn from it, besides bowling starts with a Big B!

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

Bruce Campbell
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
Originator of the -35deg x 25 leverage drilling!

http://www.damngoodbowling.com/catalog

http://www.brunswickbowling.com/products
red>

Russell · « **Reply #43 on:** December 06, 2011, 10:58:56 AM »

There is a big difference between helping yourself and hurting your opponent. I'll go to golf again. How many golfers consult their caddies before hitting a shot? How many have club reps help them get optimal numbers? How many read putts for 90+ seconds before committing to a line? How many remove loose impediments around the ball before hitting one out of the woods?

They all do it...because it's legal and helps them score better.

How many do the things I listed above?...none....are any of them legal?...sure all of them are...but it's in poor taste and unethical.

Bowling has no such code anymore.

batbowler wrote on 12/6/2011 10:48 AM:What about the teams that bowl the National with sanded bowling balls to burn a hole in the shot and put up big numbers? It happens every year and it's legal!!! If you go to Kegel or get coaching before bowling Nationals to use a dull/sanded ball to open up the shot right of where you want to play to create area!! Those that can do and those who can't complain!!! Just saying, Bruce

Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will do some "Damn Good Bowling", be a "DV8" and not turn from it, besides bowling starts with a Big B!

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

Bruce Campbell
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
Originator of the -35deg x 25 leverage drilling!

http://www.damngoodbowling.com/catalog

http://www.brunswickbowling.com/products
red>

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

ccrider · « **Reply #44 on:** December 06, 2011, 11:10:48 AM »

'There is a big difference between helping yourself and hurting your opponent.' Really now.

Russell, doen't that depend on whose ox is getting gored. Are we now to the point of saying that if one bowls up 10 with a sanded ball to create room to move inside, its o.k., but if one throws a sanded ball up ten to dry out the line his opponent may decide to play, its somehow morally wrong? What about the guy that does it for both reasons? And then there is the guy that does it just because he thinks it is going to get into his weak minded oponents head.

The goal is to win within the rules. These guys are trying to feed their family. Bowling up ten for whatever reason, is part of the game. If the PBA or USBC wants to address it, they can. But for now, it is part of the game. A somewhat novel approach, but still, part of the game.

Pros should not be one trick ponies anyway. If there is hold at ten, tell me why a pro deserves to win if he can't move inside and take advantage of the area.

Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.

completebowler · « **Reply #45 on:** December 06, 2011, 12:05:15 PM »

I agree cc...if someone blows up my line by dojng this then I should be versatile enough to move around, change hand position, loft it more, or change balls. Mika didn't destroy the whole pattern. Find another area to play.

If you watch the video on the Voss incident this is where BV is at fault. He was upset cause his line went away. But I bet the thing that really annoyed him was HE MADE THE WRONG DECISION on how to get around it. Instead of jumping in and playing where Loschetter had opened the lane up he tried to stay on the line he was and take hand out of the ball. On a couple shots he hit it a touch too hard and the ball jumped.

If the PBA changes this rule I would say it is just one more problem with what they are doing as an organization. IMO you can't ban this practice unless you also ban plastic balls for spares. They do as much damage to the end of the pattern as a sanded ball does to the front. What stops a power player such as Rash/Belmonte from throwing a spare ball right up Duke or WRW line at the 10 pin and taking all their back end reaction away resulting in decreased carry?

ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI

All Star Bowling & Trophy

Author Topic: Destroying a lane (Read 6889 times)

Pinbuster

Destroying a lane

ccrider

Re: Destroying a lane

kidlost2000

Re: Destroying a lane

trash heap

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Sunshine n Lollipops

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completebowler

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completebowler

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dizzyfugu

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Russell

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Zanatos1914

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tommygn

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dizzyfugu

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batbowler

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Russell

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ccrider

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completebowler

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