BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Gizmo823 on April 21, 2014, 03:36:44 PM
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This is kind of an off the cuff video showing off the Detox. Lol normally when I make a video I have to shoot it 100 times before I get one I like, but for this video, had one ball, so I got one shot at it, and this is it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jnq-Qt-Dnw
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Do you completely change the water each time, or can you do multiple balls before you drain the Detox? How much of the accelerator do you use per cycle?
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Very cool. If it were a little bigger you could fit the whole ball.
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You actually can fit the whole ball in, just need to put a little more water in there. Again, we generally don't so that the thumbhole stays dry and cool.
Jayhawk recommends changing the water whenever you take a ball out and you can't see the bottom of the bucket. You use about an ounce of the accelerator, but they say you don't really need to, the accelerator slightly changes the frequency and makes it go a little faster. Or it's not some special additive that is an actual required part of the process. It just uses tap water, so really about your only cost with this thing is the unit itself.
You pull the rack out, put the ball thumbhole up in it, plop it down in there, then once it's done, you pull it out, hit it with some ball cleaner and a towel, and either use an air hose or the shop vac at the drill press to get the water out of the finger grips/holes, and you're done. Ball cools back to room temperature in about 5 minutes. It's a lot more efficient and a lot safer than an oven. It's cheaper for the customer, plus a lot faster. Like I said, they get to league a half hour early, and you can run a full cycle on that thing while they're getting their beer and putting their shoes on.
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I read numerous times that you are supposed to tape the holes in the ball to prevent waterlogging. Why does this not require it?
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How is it cheaper for the customer? This unit is about the same price as an oven. Shops should be charging about the same price.
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Oh, and somebody needs to clean the shop!
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You can tape the holes, I don't think it's necessary, because the process is a lot shorter than a resurface, which exposes all the holes to water for a lot longer duration. I've done one of my balls a couple times, and I feel no negative effect on my grips.
I read numerous times that you are supposed to tape the holes in the ball to prevent waterlogging. Why does this not require it?
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It's the time a treatment takes. Because it extracts the oil rather than bleeding it out, we can do several treatments in the Detox in the time it would take to run just one through an oven.
Lol yeah I'll get the boss right on that . .
How is it cheaper for the customer? This unit is about the same price as an oven. Shops should be charging about the same price.
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Hey Gizmo, what do you use to determine the efficiency improvement and safety improvement?
Also, for those with an oven, how many times do you have to either turn business away because the oven is "in use" (or at least tell a customer his ball is in line)? I am curious if having a system that takes less time is really a cost savings to the customer. I am not sure how much business a typical shop makes on these products.
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I read numerous times that you are supposed to tape the holes in the ball to prevent waterlogging. Why does this not require it?
Just a suggestion......whenever ball cleaning ensues, just use old corks from wine bottles to temporarily close the holes. I have collected many sizes, and once you have the right size cork,......it really makes for a tight fit and water tight seal.
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OK thanks for clearing that up about water in the holes
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It's about the same as how you determine oven efficiency, there's really nothing set in stone. Most of the time with ovens, people just run it until oil stops coming out. With this, you run it for a half hour, and if the water is really milky looking, you can drain it, add fresh water and turn it back on to check. If it's not too bad, the water will still be clear enough to see that there's no more oil coming out. Like the ball in the video, it wasn't too bad. Oil came out for about 10 or 15 minutes, then visibly you could see that it stopped coming out.
Safety improvement equals lower temperature, less time. The more something heats up, the more it will expand, and the more it cools down, the more it will contract. Lower heat and less time means less expansion, and less temperature differential when it's taken out. It also means you don't void factory warranties or temperature thresholds, which are set at 125 for some and 140 for some. What the Detox can accomplish in 30 minutes at 120 degrees would take an oven much longer at a higher temperature. Overall, is it more effective than an oven? It's a wash there, because whether by Detox or oven, if you get all the oil out, you get all the oil out . . but the Detox does it much faster and safer. If you've never had a ball cracked or damaged from oven use, cool, but the other benefits still make it an improvement over an oven.
Like I said before, you can run the Detox for a half hour, blow the grips out, and go throw it 5 minutes after it comes out. Most oven treatments last around 2 hours, and from what I've heard, the charge is usually 30-35 dollars. In 2 hours, we can do 4 Detox treatments at 20 dollars apiece. It's cheaper, can be done while the customer waits, and is even interesting for them to watch and to tell them about. Then of course it's more profitable for the shop because you can do more treatments in a shorter amount of time.
Hey Gizmo, what do you use to determine the efficiency improvement and safety improvement?
Also, for those with an oven, how many times do you have to either turn business away because the oven is "in use" (or at least tell a customer his ball is in line)? I am curious if having a system that takes less time is really a cost savings to the customer. I am not sure how much business a typical shop makes on these products.
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Gizmo, my question was really based on how often do ovens operate at a normal pro shop. My pro shop isn't running the oven 24/7. So that tells me there is a chance that reducing the time required isn't a "gain". Can you clean 4 balls in the Detox in the amount of time it takes to do 1 ball in an oven? Perhaps, but if you only have one customer come in to clean a ball every 2 hours, is it really a benefit? Yes, the customer may not have to drop off the ball, but is it worth it for shops with ovens to convert to Detox, maybe not.
And your support almost comes off as a commercial. Nothing against you, but I just wonder if there is a real benefit of the Detox over the traditional oven (which a lot of shops already have). If a shop has nothing, then this is a very good option.
Like I said before, you can run the Detox for a half hour, blow the grips out, and go throw it 5 minutes after it comes out. Most oven treatments last around 2 hours, and from what I've heard, the charge is usually 30-35 dollars. In 2 hours, we can do 4 Detox treatments at 20 dollars apiece. It's cheaper, can be done while the customer waits, and is even interesting for them to watch and to tell them about. Then of course it's more profitable for the shop because you can do more treatments in a shorter amount of time.
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Why would you charge less for something you feel does a better job when the cost of the machine is the same. The benefit should be for the shop to be able to do more balls, not charge the customer less.
If a guy cuts my lawn for $50 and goes out and buys a wider mower that cost the same as the mower he was using should he charge me less because he found a more efficient way to work? No, he will charge me the same because the rate for the service has already been determined.
Don't think like a consumer when you are running the pro shop.
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If more people decide to do it or people want to do more balls because the cost is less, more money is made.
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The shorter time frame is a benefit to the consumer, they should pay for that. The dunk time using this machine may be twenty minutes, but you will have to change the water. With an oven you just pull the ball out and stick in the next. You need to figure the time spent changing water into the price. I haven't seen that many shops with sinks and faucets in them, so the typical shop will be chasing water through the bowling center. So now you are at half an hour a ball.
The whole make it up in volume argument doesn't work when you are selling a service.
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If a shop already has an oven, there's probably no reason to replace it. The Detox is safer and better for the ball all the way around, so I'll argue for it over an oven.
Sometimes it's a benefit, sometimes it's not. We frequently have large tournaments here. If we have the ability to do 16 balls in 8 hours as opposed to 4, all the sudden it's a lot more valuable. We had 4 balls come in for a treatment all at the same time the other night, the boss was able to do them all and give them back by the time the guy was done bowling league as opposed to making him make another trip out the next day to pick them up.
As far as the whole pricing model goes, a lot of prices for certain things are based on or related to time or duration of the service. You have a base price just for the part or service itself, and then as the time involved goes up, so does the price. It's like getting a car part changed. You could have two different parts that cost the same, but one can be replaced in a half hour, and the other takes 2 hours to get to. You're going to be charged a lot more for the part that takes 2 hours to get to because of just the extra labor.
Like some shops charge different prices for different levels of drilling, a recommended pricing structure is dependent on the length of the treatment. 20 minute treatment, 15 bucks, 30 minutes, 20 bucks, 45 minutes 25 bucks, 1 hr 30 bucks . . We're past the base cost of what the service itself costs and into the time involved or the duration.
Gizmo, my question was really based on how often do ovens operate at a normal pro shop. My pro shop isn't running the oven 24/7. So that tells me there is a chance that reducing the time required isn't a "gain". Can you clean 4 balls in the Detox in the amount of time it takes to do 1 ball in an oven? Perhaps, but if you only have one customer come in to clean a ball every 2 hours, is it really a benefit? Yes, the customer may not have to drop off the ball, but is it worth it for shops with ovens to convert to Detox, maybe not.
And your support almost comes off as a commercial. Nothing against you, but I just wonder if there is a real benefit of the Detox over the traditional oven (which a lot of shops already have). If a shop has nothing, then this is a very good option.
Like I said before, you can run the Detox for a half hour, blow the grips out, and go throw it 5 minutes after it comes out. Most oven treatments last around 2 hours, and from what I've heard, the charge is usually 30-35 dollars. In 2 hours, we can do 4 Detox treatments at 20 dollars apiece. It's cheaper, can be done while the customer waits, and is even interesting for them to watch and to tell them about. Then of course it's more profitable for the shop because you can do more treatments in a shorter amount of time.
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A Revivor holds 2 balls, so you can do twice as many with the dunk vs the oven.
That you were able to do 4 balls for the customer and they didn't have to return to pick them up is a benefit to them, and they should pay for that.
The value of a de-oil has already been established. This device allows a shop to do more balls per day. This should allow the shop to make more money. They are paying for a de-oil, not the amount of time in the dunk tank. Just like if you buy a drill press that allows you to drill a ball faster you shouldn't lower the price. The value of a drilling has already been established. Are you going to charge double for the balls that have to go through a double cycle?
Stop thinking like a consumer and start thinking like a businessman.
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Points taken. I'm not the boss, but it allows us to meet the customer halfway. It's a bit of a funky market here, we're already in a low cost market to begin with. This is something that's kind of "new," plus we're still in the introductory special period, I'm not sure what he's going to charge when the special expires. I imagine $25.
A Revivor holds 2 balls, so you can do twice as many with the dunk vs the oven.
That you were able to do 4 balls for the customer and they didn't have to return to pick them up is a benefit to them, and they should pay for that.
The value of a de-oil has already been established. This device allows a shop to do more balls per day. This should allow the shop to make more money. They are paying for a de-oil, not the amount of time in the dunk tank. Just like if you buy a drill press that allows you to drill a ball faster you shouldn't lower the price. The value of a drilling has already been established. Are you going to charge double for the balls that have to go through a double cycle?
Stop thinking like a consumer and start thinking like a businessman.