Author Topic: Rules question (Read 10197 times)

Rick Wunder · « **on:** August 13, 2009, 12:38:11 AM »

This happened in our league last night:

A bowler is up on lane 13. During his approach, he falls on the approach, losing his ball off his hand. He fell and landed way short of the foul line. His ball rolled across the approach toward lane 14, and eventually found its way into the right gutter on lane 14. The ball eventually ended up going all the way down lane 14 (gutter), causing the pinspotter to cycle and return his ball.

We concluded that since the ball left his hand and rolled across the foul line that he had made a legal (if unorthodox) delivery. We considered the possibility that it should be considered a gutter ball and he should get zero on that ball (his first ball of the frame). After further consideration, and consulting the USBC rule book, we reconsidered, determining that he had "bowled" on the wrong lane, so therefore it was a dead ball and should be taken over again.

What do the rest of you think the ruling should have been?

We have e-mailed the USBC and I'll post the results when I hear them.
--------------------
RW (THB)

SleepOnIce · « **Reply #46 on:** August 17, 2009, 09:53:42 AM »

quote:
OK, here is the ruling from the USBC, with the original e-mail to them attached:

This is in response to your e-mail below.

In instances where a bowler releases the ball on an adjacent lane, it is a legal delivery. The ball left the bowlerâ€™s possession and crossed the foul line into playing territory (Rule 4a). The delivery counts and the bowler receives zero.

Bowling on the wrong lane is when a bowler executes the delivery from the wrong lane.

Feel free to contact us should you have additional questions regarding this matter.

Sincerely,
Kathy Andersen
Senior Rules Counselor

Bowl with US

Visit the USBC official website www.bowl.com and click Rules for the most recent copy of the USBC Playing Rules and other helpful publications and resources.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This happened in our league tonight.

Bowler up on the left lane falls during his approach and releases the
ball, which rolls over to the right lane and falls into gutter and rolls
to the pit. The bowler did not foul, he wound up well short of the foul
line.

We decided it was a dead ball due to the fact that he "bowled" on the
wrong lane.

Correct interpretation?

Thank you very much.
--------------------
RW (THB)

Would that mean if I lined up on 13(while being up on 14), meaning to loft it onto 14, it wouldn't count?
--------------------
BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!

Edited on 8/17/2009 9:54 AM

J_w73 · « **Reply #47 on:** August 17, 2009, 12:01:54 PM »

quote:
Golly, I like being right.
--------------------
Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio

good job.. I hate being wrong

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Rick Wunder · « **Reply #48 on:** August 18, 2009, 10:04:17 AM »

We e-mailed USBC again, asking what the ruling would be if the ball had hit the gutter cap or foul detection box. Here is their reply to that:

If the ball never crosses the foul line, there is no delivery. Dropped behind the player, no delivery. If the bowler crosses the foul line and maintains possession of the ball, no delivery or foul.

If the ball, before going into an adjacent lane first hits the gutter cap, dead ball. Conversely, if the ball lands on the lane, delivery is made.

Sincerely,
Kathy Andersen
Senior Rules Counselor

--------------------
RW (THB)

AngloBowler · « **Reply #49 on:** August 18, 2009, 12:50:16 PM »

quote:
Conversely, if the ball lands on the lane, delivery is made

Important distinction there (my emphasis). They should really sort out their English skills because that is still open to interpretation. Bye their use of the definite article, I would infer that they mean the lane I was aiming for. If they meant what I think they mean from the tone of the rest of the message, they should have said:

Conversely, if the ball lands on a lane, delivery is made
--------------------
Reporting from England

tenpin477 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 18, 2009, 01:20:45 PM »

quote:
Oh Rick, this is far too easy. It was the bowler's turn to bowl on lane 13. The bowler made an approach to make an attempt at knocking down the pins on lane 13. The bowler made a delivery in which the ball crossed the foul line without fouling that resulted in no pins being knocked down on lane 13. Zero for the first delivery, shoot the full rack spare on lane 13. If USBC interprets the rule any differently, they have been standing out in the Texas sun for too long and need to move back to Milwaukee.

cptn scmbg.

The problem you run into is that you have no proof he didn't stand on 13 intending to throw it down 14, not knowing he was in fact up on 13. I know its a farfetched scenario, but its possible even if very remotely, so you can't rule this is a legal delivery just because he intended to throw the ball on 13, but you have no proof of that.

J_w73 · « **Reply #51 on:** August 18, 2009, 01:34:34 PM »

There are a bunch of scenarios that the USBC rule leaves open. Very unlikely but....

What if the bowler is up on 14 but gets up and starts to bowl on the wrong lane 13? He falls and drops the ball and the ball crosses onto lane 14.
Does the fact that he was attempting to bowl on 13 mean that it is a dead ball or is it a legal delivery because the ball went onto the correct lane he was suppose to bowl on. According to the USBC rule the intent or the attempt of which lane the bowler is bowling on comes into play..
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

mmcfarland300 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 18, 2009, 01:34:47 PM »

I would also question that the actual delivery is legal. Is there any clarification as to what constitutes a illegal delivery?
--------------------
"Another day will bring a different result"
"Pick your battles because stressing over things will not change an outcome"

Pinbuster · « **Reply #53 on:** August 18, 2009, 05:40:38 PM »

Everybody keeps trying to make it too hard.

The bowler is up on 14. If you have been observing the person get up on 13's approach to loft the cap to bowl on 14 and he throws it accross the foul line it is a shot regardless of which lane the ball lands on.

The bowler is up on 14. If he has been using the same approach as the lane he has been bowling on thru the night, he is on 13's approach and throws it over the foul line then he bowled on the wrong lane regardless of where it went.

The bowler is up on 14. You have been observing him lofting the gutter cap all night on 14, he doesn't make it over the cap and lands on 13 and claims he was up on the wrong lane. You then club him like a baby seal.

4a. Legal Delivery
A delivery is made when the ball leaves the playerâ€™s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory.
Every delivery counts unless a dead ball is declared. (See Rule 8.) A delivery must be made entirely by
manual means. No device may be incorporated in or affixed to the ball that detaches on delivery or is a moving
part during delivery except as provided in Rules 4b and 4c.

mainzer · « **Reply #54 on:** August 19, 2009, 09:15:11 AM »

Wrong lane
--------------------
''Don't you Forget their is a price
you can pay.
Cause I am the Game!
And I wanna Play!''

-MotorHead Song ''THE GAME''-

MainzerPower

Author Topic: Rules question (Read 10197 times)

Rick Wunder

Rules question

SleepOnIce

Re: Rules question

J_w73

Re: Rules question

Rick Wunder

Re: Rules question

AngloBowler

Re: Rules question

tenpin477

Re: Rules question

J_w73

Re: Rules question

mmcfarland300

Re: Rules question

Pinbuster

Re: Rules question

mainzer

Re: Rules question