Author Topic: Discussing grips (Read 1759 times)

Hex017 · « **on:** February 21, 2008, 01:48:21 PM »

With all the talk about forward pitch in Clifton's thread I thought I would throw some of my own questions out there and see what you guys think. I just recently returned from a Mo Pinel clinic and got some interesting advice. He told me that 1. I place my fingers in too far in the ball (I usually put them in a little past the first crease), and 2. I cheat with my thumb (I tend to slide it out a little).

Now with my current grip my span is 3 15/16 for my middle finger, 3 13/16 for my ring(I think), I don't use any pitch in my fingers, in my thumb I use 1/8 forward and 1/8 left. Mo beveled out the front of my thumb hole and I have been dropping it ever since. Now there was also a re-fitting done at the shop (Badger Bowl in Wisconsin). They made some major changes. Lengthened my span to 4 1/8 (middle finger) and 4 with my ring. Also went to 3/16 forward with no lateral. Tightened up my fingers, and added 1/4 away to my fingers. I have tried prying this thing off my hand for about 10 games and can only cork it off my hand. Ball basically is spinning like a top.

My question is, where do I go from here? I could continue with the re-fitted ball but I feel like it is too much. I've also questioned, why is it so bad to place my fingers a little further in the ball? Is that really holding me back? I'm only 5'5 and have a small hand, doing that just feels like I can support the ball more with my palm and fingers rather than thumb. Sorry for the lengthy post but I am not real sure where to go from here, I figure some experimenting is in my future but what changes should I make?
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-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra

the pooh · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2008, 11:33:03 PM »

If you were to bowl a lot of games,you WOULD tear your fingers up!Most better bowlers put their fingers in to the joint or less for this reason.A proper span also promotes putting them in to the proper depth,as you would not be able to put your thumb in all the way if you didn't have your fingers at the right depth.I always teach,fingers 1/8" before the crease is good,but never past the crease!On the other side,the thumb should be in all the way!Again,a proper spaan and pitches will allow this to happen naturally.

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the pooh

agroves · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2008, 12:48:48 AM »

Where do you go from here? Redrill that second ball for starters!

Fwd/Rev finger pitch is usually based upon flexibility. Most people would find a more comfortable fit with a touch of rev in the fingers....say 1/8".

This is purely a guess....but...

1/4.......1/4 rev
---O------O---

---4"----3 7/8"--

------1/8fwd----
1/8----O-------

More importantly, what prompted you to try and change your fit?

By pulling your fingers or thumb out, you are making a compensation for something fitting poorly. Span, Pitches...something just isn't quite right. Without seeing your claw, it is too hard to diagnose it properly.
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Andrew

Edited on 2/22/2008 1:48 AM

Edited on 2/22/2008 1:49 AM

Hex017 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:32:03 PM »

Thank you for the replies, although I do have to disagree with one thing. Just this past week I practiced tues-friday, 6 games tues,wed,thurs, and 4 games on friday then threw 18 games this weekend for a tournament, 10 on saturday and 8 on sunday, and my fingers were maybe a little sore at most. I've even considered a semi-finger tip grip, I know chris barnes uses one but then again my again is nothing like his.

As for what prompted me to make the changes was 1. Trying to get my hand/armswing more relaxed and 2. My thumb is pretty rough and will get sore if I bowl enough games. I may have to give your suggestion a try agroves, but I just like the feel of having my fingers deeper in the ball. I fail to see why it's bad.
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-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra

Hex017 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:44:52 PM »

Is it mislabeled a semi-finger tip grip in this article? It may be, I'm just asking.

http://www.bowlingknowledge.com/tips/tedthompson/tt200111.pdf

quote]Barnes does not use a Semi Finger tip grip. It's a relaxed finger tip grip. He does not put his fingers into the ball between the two creases of the fingers.

He also used a stretched finger tip grip for his spare ball.

Nothing about Barnes grip is a semi finger tip grip...It's just relaxed, shortened with alittle forward in the thumb.
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Bowling, a simple game that has been made difficult by humans.

"Bowling, It was huge. It was bigger than football!" - Dale Eagle[/quote]
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-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra

Hex017 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2008, 04:37:18 PM »

It does make sense but its not the first time I've heard of CB using a "semi-finger tip grip" which is why I was curious. Does Barnes place his fingers in only to the first crease? My span was also quite relaxed before the re-fitting and when I place my fingers in to just the first crease it feels very strange, but the grips are a little loose. I guess I will need to re-think and just see what I can do to place my fingers in the ball properly.

quote:
It's short, but it's not a semi finger tip grip. A semi finger tip grip consists of the bowler putting his fingers into the ball much deeper past the 1st crease. Almost up to the point of where the fingers would be inserted between the two creases.

That's a semi finger tip grip.

Today we measure bowlers hands to what would be the middle of the two creases, and then they put their fingers into the ball as normal up to the 1st crease.

It's a VERY relaxed finger tip grip...but like I said there is nothing semi about it. When the semi finger tip had some popularity, there was a special insert that was longer than the normal finger insert that you had to use to accommodate the added finger length being put in the hole. After many years it's been determined that this type of grip did more damage than good because bowlers don't have any flexibility in the middle of their fingers, only at the joints. It caused much problems in many bowlers hands.

Barnes uses regular oval finger inserts..No semi finger tip grips.

You could make a case to argue that your measuring for a semi finger tip grip, but the bowler uses it as a normal finger tip.

As smart as Ted Thompson is, his choice of wording for the article is misleading.

It's also safe to say that if Barnes tried to use a true semi finger tip grip, with his cup and uncoil release he would break his fingers and cause much problems to his hand. You can't inserts your fingers that deep and get them out very quickly. Alittle hang up, with a violent release and bad things can happen.

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Bowling, a simple game that has been made difficult by humans.

"Bowling, It was huge. It was bigger than football!" - Dale Eagle

Edited on 2/22/2008 3:07 PM

Edited on 2/22/2008 3:12 PM

Edited on 2/22/2008 3:16 PM

--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra

backswing_aplenty · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2008, 10:02:43 AM »

Everything you've said makes it sound like the insert sizes and thumb hole are just too big. It doesn't matter what pitches and spans you use if the gripping holes aren't the right size the ball will never feel comfortable.

If you are able to cram your fingers in past the first joint, your inserts are too big. If a little bevel on the front of your thumb makes the ball fall off you're using too much grip pressure to keep the ball on your hand.

And if going a little longer with your span makes you feel like you have to "pry it off" that also points towards too much gripping pressure. (although a longer span creates other problems at the release point.)

Here's a plan I use for my customers who have an established grip they like but utilize a bit too much squeeze:

I would try the shorter span you've listed, tighten up the fingers and the thumb and use that as a starting point. Relax your hand as much as you can and start adding tape to your thumb hole. Go one piece at a time until you actually can't pry the ball off your hand (you'll be amazed at how tight of a hole you can get out of), and then back off one or two pieces. My guess is you might be able to add 3-4 pieces before you "really" hang.

Of course this is just based on what you've written. Consult your driller for the best way to go about the adjustments. A lot of time what we feel is comfortable for us is the exact opposite of what will help us become better bowlers. Just be open to new feels.

*backswing
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*...Got the 5 out clean!

To prove I'm real

270-2931 http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?mp=270&ms=2931&s=2005-2006

JohnP · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2008, 10:24:55 AM »

quote:
If you are able to cram your fingers in past the first joint, your inserts are too big.

I've found that finger fit, like so much else about the grip, is a personal preference. So long as the customer doesn't actually put the finger in past the joint, a loose fit is fine. I personally like a loose fit (I also don't use grips, maybe I'm just odd), but I put my fingers in just to the joint. You lift only with the front of the finger, what difference does it make how tight the rest is? -- JohnP

Author Topic: Discussing grips (Read 1759 times)

Hex017

Discussing grips

the pooh

Re: Discussing grips

agroves

Re: Discussing grips

Hex017

Re: Discussing grips

Hex017

Re: Discussing grips

Hex017

Re: Discussing grips

backswing_aplenty

Re: Discussing grips

JohnP

Re: Discussing grips