Author Topic: Do these words about SOB still hold true? (Read 8971 times)

Mighty Fish · « **on:** July 04, 2011, 09:31:55 PM »

The so-called System of Bowling was unveiled 20 years ago, and I commented on its progress in a column six years later.

Don't the words expressed in that 1997 column still ring true today?

http://www.examiner.com/bowling-in-st-pe...ieve-objectives

Mighty Fish · « **Reply #61 on:** July 23, 2011, 12:30:45 PM »

Dear Sunshine n Lollipops:

Just think how much you could have been "in awe" if you had lived near Fort Drum, N.Y. Perhaps you could have been one of the few (if any) to actually witness some of Robert Mushtare's 900s.

As for Glenn Allison, can you compare him to Mushtare? Glenn's only 900 was UNCERTIFIED whereas Mushtare not only had ONE uncertified series during one league season, HE HAD TWO CERTIFIED 900s that are in the record books for all to see.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #62 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:00:45 PM »

Bill,

Give it a rest. Most of us, Sunshine included I believe, agree that the system of bowling was a failure, with the difference being that you and I think it may be relevant, while Sunshine thinks its failure is totally irrelevant.

You, and I, think that it could make a difference. Sunshine and Lollipops does not. You, and I, both wish bowling had stayed closer to its roots. Sunshine says to heck with that, just take what you have offered to you and either shut up and compete or quit.

I cannot fault his(Sunshines) opinion much. He sounds like a pragmatist who deals in concrete terms, while you and I seem to want to deal more with the ephemeral side of things. He deals with what he perceives as absolutes, we deal with what could've been, or could be.

Truth is, whether we like it or not, the SOB failed, and has been forgotten about. He is right about that, and its just guys like you and me that speculate about the results of that death. Some guys, like Sunshine, just move on and deal with things as they are.

Mighty Fish wrote on 7/23/2011 12:30 PM:
Dear Sunshine n Lollipops:

Just think how much you could have been "in awe" if you had lived near Fort Drum, N.Y. Perhaps you could have been one of the few (if any) to actually witness some of Robert Mushtare's 900s.

As for Glenn Allison, can you compare him to Mushtare? Glenn's only 900 was UNCERTIFIED whereas Mushtare not only had ONE uncertified series during one league season, HE HAD TWO CERTIFIED 900s that are in the record books for all to see.

Mighty Fish · « **Reply #63 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:22:46 PM »

Dear Juggernaut:

I'm not so sure that Sunshine agrees that the SOB has been a failure. It seems more as if he doesn't really care if it's been a failure or not. And whether or not the SOB is "relevant" ... it probably DOESN'T make a difference because it HASN'T succeeded in its stated objectives.

As for "taking what the game offered" ... I continued to compete (although I went from being the best bowler in my area to an "also-ran") until I was forced to the sidelines because of three major foot surgeries several years ago. In other words, I didn't quit.

I don't "fault" Sunshine's opinions, which he has every right to hold. However, I do feel -- rightly or wrongly -- that, somewhere along the line, USBC should have "held the line" with regard to SOB. Either that, or USBC should have disregarded it altogether (and stated as much).

Whether you believe it or not, I HAVE "MOVED ON" and dealt with things as they are. I know full-well that even if I wasn't forced from the game (via foot surgeries) that I had my day in the sun. It's no one's fault but my own that I wasn't able to adapt to the walled-up lanes that became prominent in my area by the late '70s. Obviously, I liked the "old-style" game more, but then again, I liked Top 40 radio and pinball machines, and both of those things have pretty much gone by the wayside, too.

As for Sunshine n Lollipops, I honestly respect his opinions (as much as they may differ from mine), although -- unlike him -- I don't (and will never) feel a need to attempt to minimize others' opinions by issuing insulting or demeaning comments toward those who may disagree with me.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:15:07 PM »

SOB= Epic Fail

USBC=Epic Fail

Most entry level balls these day are more then enough to shoot consistent high scores. Ebonite uses there biggest hooking cover from The One of 5 years ago on a decent core now for the entry ball. I'm guessing somewhere someone needs all the help they can get. I have learned I do not. I really enjoy bowling. It is my main form of competitive outlet when not playing golf in the summer. I get excited about new equipment and getting ready for the upcoming season. I bowl on a great 5 man team. I don't like what the center has become we bowl in. I don't like USBC. Things will not change for the better only for the money. Get out of bowling what you want because that is all there is.

Be good, or be good at it.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #65 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:31:18 PM »

He probably DOESN'T care if its been a failure or not because, irrespective of either its success or failure, we are wherewe are today. That's what Sunshine deals with, absolutes.

I, in no way, am trying to put words in his mouth, but I've dealt with him before. He often makes good points, but infuses them within a context that can raise ones temperature past the boiling point, especially if one only concentrates on the presentation.

Mighty Fish, your story and mine aren't all that different, except for the part about having to quit, and that may be short lived. Earlier this year, I shattered my elbow and upper arm on my bowling arm, and haven't gotten to the point that I can even try again. I may be out of bowling as well.

That doesn't keep us from both CARING, and SPECULATING, about what has happened to the sport/game and where its going, if anywhere.

Perhaps he's(Sunshine) right, maybe bowling HAS passed both you and me by. In that case, our remarks are little more that fodder with which to charge the cannon's of opinion with, and more than ever before, I am beginning to believe that to be the case.

Make no mistake, that won't stop me from caring, or having an opinion, but it will help me to understand that the opinions I do have are less and less relevant with each day that passes.

Mighty Fish · « **Reply #66 on:** July 23, 2011, 04:17:39 PM »

Dear Juggernaut:

Without a doubt, the game began "passing me by" with the advent of the scoring boom. I know I was an exception to the "rule" but I was about a 195-average bowler BEFORE the scoring explosion and about a 195-bowler AFTER it, as well. But unlike what you and/or Sunshine may think, I was never bitter about others suddenly "going around" me in ability.

Bewildered? Perhaps. In wonderment as to why I couldn't jump into the 200s? Yes. But I understood that my game was based almost entirely on deadly accuracy, and no lane conditions or balls were going to improve my accuracy. And any extra hitting power I may have received from modern equipment was always negated by a few extra nosedives (for splits). That's just the way it was, and I simply had to accept it. I have no one to blame but myself for my inability to compensate.

Sunshine n Lollipops · « **Reply #67 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:52:37 PM »

Who cares about Mushtare? Why do you constantly grasp at straws to try to make one of your dubious points? But since you brought Mushtare into it, here we go. Everybody knows that Mushtare's 900's were/are tainted. That's why the rules were changed. But, while the rule was worded in the old style, his 900 qualified. You should be ecstatic. A literal man like you saw the rules literally followed and a questionable honor score was awarded. Bravo, Fishwrap. That's the only things guys like you ever get accomplished. Why don't you just step away from the keyboard and unplug the computer and not come back. Do us all a favor.

Mighty Fish wrote on 7/23/2011 12:30 PM:
Dear Sunshine n Lollipops:

Just think how much you could have been "in awe" if you had lived near Fort Drum, N.Y. Perhaps you could have been one of the few (if any) to actually witness some of Robert Mushtare's 900s.

As for Glenn Allison, can you compare him to Mushtare? Glenn's only 900 was UNCERTIFIED whereas Mushtare not only had ONE uncertified series during one league season, HE HAD TWO CERTIFIED 900s that are in the record books for all to see.

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

Sunshine n Lollipops · « **Reply #68 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:00:23 PM »

Juggsy,

It is very rare in life that we deal with absolutes. It's just that life is way too short to worry about shoulda, coulda, woulda. I, too, deal with the old way vs. new way in bowling. I struggle to stop hitting up on the ball. Its a long arduous journey to develop the long flat spot in my swing and resist the urge to hit up on the ball. It's coming along. But while I'm in the middle of that, I sure as hell don't worry about the SOB. I get lost in the moment, so to speak. I hope that you heal enough to start bowling again or you have the skill and coordination to bowl with your off hand.

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #69 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:18:16 PM »

G.A. shot 900 in an era when it would never be approved. Today that is almost impossible to do. Even if the shot is illegal, ball weight is illegal, and the lane doesn't meet USBC specs those scores are still approved. It is a hard thought to live with but it is the way the game has evolved. It is really best not to think about any of it. Just bowl.

"Get out of bowling what you want because that is all there is."

Mighty Fish · « **Reply #70 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:27:04 PM »

Dear Sunshine n Lollipops:

Wait a minute. You said (and I quote you): Everybody knows that Mushtare's 900's were/are tainted.

Obviously not EVERYBODY. Some of the people that count -- USBC officials Jeff Henry, Chris Cooper and Kevin Dornberger -- didn't feel that Mushtare's 900s were tainted; otherwise, wouldn't the 900s have been rejected?

What makes you think that YOUR opinion has more "value" than those USBC officials who supposedly had full access to all of the facts (whereas YOU DIDN'T)?

Juggernaut · « **Reply #71 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:29:01 PM »

Yeah, absolutes was probably not the best term to use, just the one that came to mind. And I understand the part about trying to change from the "urethane release" to the "reactive release". That was one that I never was fully able to do, but I had my moments.

I tend to like your "positive" attitude, but it can be hard to pick out at times. You have the innate ability to obscure that within the frustrated context you somettmes offer. Where many people practice "dipomatic tactics" in expressing their opinions, you discard what you see as "BS" and cut to the meat of the subject as you perceive it. Not a bad thing at all, but it can confuse people that don't understand that is all you're doing.

Thank you for the well wishes. It is my hope that, at some point, I can return to bowling, even if I will never be the bowler I once was. I truly love the sport/game, and hope to be able to participate for a long time to come. After all, in a handicap world of walled THS shots, how good does one really have to be?

Sunshine n Lollipops wrote on 7/23/2011 6:00 PM:
Juggsy,

It is very rare in life that we deal with absolutes. It's just that life is way too short to worry about shoulda, coulda, woulda. I, too, deal with the old way vs. new way in bowling. I struggle to stop hitting up on the ball. Its a long arduous journey to develop the long flat spot in my swing and resist the urge to hit up on the ball. It's coming along. But while I'm in the middle of that, I sure as hell don't worry about the SOB. I get lost in the moment, so to speak. I hope that you heal enough to start bowling again or you have the skill and coordination to bowl with your off hand.

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

Sunshine n Lollipops · « **Reply #72 on:** July 24, 2011, 09:26:41 AM »

Fishwrap, are you really this obtuse or can't you read. I said that unfortunately the way the rule was written at the time Mushtare bowled his 900, pre-bowled scores counted. Now they don't. That's how it goes. Me and about ten million other bowlers didn't count it in our minds because it was pre-bowled. Teams or bowlers in league can't win jackpots with pre-bowled scores in most leagues, why should an honor score count? You're supposedly this great legendary bowling writer with contacts galore, didn't you ever do a poll of actual bowlers and find out their opinion on his 900 or were you just your arrogant condescending self and assumed the general bowling population was fine with it. Goddam, you think you're being oh-so-clever and instead you just make an ass of yourself. Isn't there somebody close to you that can prevent you from coming on here and embarrassing yourself time and time again.

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

Mighty Fish · « **Reply #73 on:** July 24, 2011, 03:41:51 PM »

Dear Sunshine n Lollipops:

If you feel you can score "forum points" (or some other objective) with your profanity and personal insults, please continue to do so.

Keep in mind that YOU didn't hear and review all the evidence on Mushtare's multiple 900s. Jeff Henry of the USBC is quoted as saying, "In all honesty, the people that stood before us and told us what they saw, I believe them." [Listen to Henry say that at about 6:05 into the following interview ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePSaNx_PIpM ]

Are you implying that Jeff Henry is a liar? Or that people he listened to were liars? Or that Mushtare himself was lying? Just what are you saying?

Sunshine n Lollipops · « **Reply #74 on:** July 24, 2011, 05:58:04 PM »

I'm saying you're a total idiot for even asking those questions. Goodbye, Rainman.

Mighty Fish wrote on 7/24/2011 3:41 PM:
Dear Sunshine n Lollipops:

If you feel you can score "forum points" (or some other objective) with your profanity and personal insults, please continue to do so.

Keep in mind that YOU didn't hear and review all the evidence on Mushtare's multiple 900s. Jeff Henry of the USBC is quoted as saying, "In all honesty, the people that stood before us and told us what they saw, I believe them." [Listen to Henry say that at about 6:05 into the following interview ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePSaNx_PIpM >

Are you implying that Jeff Henry is a liar? Or that people he listened to were liars? Or that Mushtare himself was lying? Just what are you saying?

Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.

Mighty Fish · « **Reply #75 on:** July 24, 2011, 07:44:32 PM »

Dear Sunshine n Lollipops:

Based on what you've said, if you feel that I'm an idiot, what do you think of Jeff Henry, Kevin Dornberger and Chris Cooper?

Author Topic: Do these words about SOB still hold true? (Read 8971 times)

Mighty Fish

Do these words about SOB still hold true?

Mighty Fish

Re: Do these words about SOB still hold true?

Juggernaut

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Mighty Fish

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kidlost2000

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Juggernaut

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Mighty Fish

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Sunshine n Lollipops

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Sunshine n Lollipops

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kidlost2000

Re: Do these words about SOB still hold true?

Mighty Fish

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Juggernaut

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Sunshine n Lollipops

Re: Do these words about SOB still hold true?

Mighty Fish

Re: Do these words about SOB still hold true?

Sunshine n Lollipops

Re: Do these words about SOB still hold true?

Mighty Fish

Re: Do these words about SOB still hold true?