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Author Topic: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!  (Read 5384 times)

trash heap

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Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« on: February 24, 2014, 04:50:26 PM »
Story Setup:My son has been bowling for a few years. He only bowls once a week, he likes it, but not really into it. The local association team event was this past weekend. There was a girl on his team who had a Grandmother watching her.

So this lady starts making comments about my sons bowling. He has a tendacy to pull the ball. She kept telling me the reason for him pulling the ball is because he is dropping his shoulder. I sure didn't want to get into argument with her, but I tried to explain that dropping the shoulder is part of today's game.

She insisted that my statements were incorrect and I knew nothing about the game. So I chose to walk away from the situation.

What ticked me off the most was her constantly reminding that he is dropping his shoulder. I got tired of hearing it! I wasn't making any negative statements about her grand daughter. Good thing my son didn't hear any of it. That might of sent me over the edge.

Why do people feel the need to do this? Cheer for the kids, mention the good things they are doing. That's what makes it a good event.
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St. Croix

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2014, 05:19:23 PM »
You clearly did the right thing by walking away. If you had responded, the lady would have escalated the matter. If you cannot avoid this person in the future, tell her what you stated in the last line of your post: "I am here to cheer for the kids and mention the good things that they are doing."
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swingset

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 06:47:58 PM »
Next time feel free to use any of these (all said with deadpan seriousness as you stare at her)

1. "Your granddaughter is ugly"

2. "My son injured his shoulder saving someone from a housefire"

3. "Are you coming on to me?"

4. "You know, you're right...I'll take to him with the belt or the curling iron when we get home"

5. "I know it's his shoulder, that's because he's drunk off his ass"
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MrPerfect

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 07:01:47 PM »
Hardest part of coaching is mixed messages. I focus fun above everything, but it's easier to improve a bowler one skill at a time. Grandma is grandma, and in her day she would have been correct.

Right now she admittedly could be correct as well, but I would need to see video of your son bowling. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with dropping the shoulder especially with the modern swing. It is easier to slot the swing and allows your arm to drop freely along the plane just below your right eye allowing us to be consistent and accurate with a free swing.

However, I would of told Grandma to mind her business.

vindo27

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 09:41:09 PM »
I didn't know Kelly kulik had children....ur a better man than me. I would have told her to go get her equipment n shown her what for!

northface28

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 11:45:13 PM »
I wouldve simply told her she had no idea what she's talking about. Then, I wouldve told her to grab her gear and show me how its possible to throw a ball without dropping your shoulder. I hate old school,  traditional thinking.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 05:53:17 AM »
I would have let it go.

You are not going to change her mind any more than she is going to change your mind.

Why fight a battle when the result doesn't really matter and argument is really an opinion?

I generally try to look at things as "Is this a battle I'm willing to die in a ditch for?" If not then be the mature and walk away.

Gizmo823

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 07:43:33 AM »
This.  Most things in bowling have almost done a 180 in the last couple decades, and people don't even make sense of things.  How are you supposed to keep your shoulder up and square with the line when you're playing 4th arrow?  Makes no sense to aim your body one way and try to throw it another . .

I wouldve simply told her she had no idea what she's talking about. Then, I wouldve told her to grab her gear and show me how its possible to throw a ball without dropping your shoulder. I hate old school,  traditional thinking.
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soonerdallas

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 09:14:35 AM »
I would have went to bowlingknowledge.info which is joe slowinskis website who is a usbc.com gold coach and writes very good articles. At the bottom of the home page he sells bowling shirts, and what do they say? Drop your Damn shoulder. Maybe you can buy your kid one then go find the lady again lol. Or even better buy her a shirt.
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 09:24:42 AM »
I go the extra step.  I sit back and KNOW I'm still right and she's still wrong......and enjoy the fact that I have information that she is ignorant in, and can control her by allowing her ignorance (thereby making her look like a fool) to continue.  It avoids the argument you can't win and keeps you in control.  It's "handling" her and her antiquated ideas she's projecting onto the modern game.

It's just like in poker, if I hear a fish at the table use bad logic which creates a leak in his game, I usually agree (and sometimes subtly encourage) with the bad logic, thereby keeping him more where I want him.

The simple fact that I KNOW (via results in reality) and she doesn't is enough for me.

Mean.......but hey.

When working with the kids though (coaching), teach them what you KNOW is correct.  As to the child having an issue pulling the ball....address that as necessary and use that as a "teachable moment" that there are human beings out there who are ignorant and want to pontificate said ignorance.

Kudos for walking away.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 09:27:14 AM by Good Times Good Times »
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lifted rillo

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2014, 10:21:09 AM »
I would have went to bowlingknowledge.info which is joe slowinskis website who is a usbc.com gold coach and writes very good articles. At the bottom of the home page he sells bowling shirts, and what do they say? Drop your Damn shoulder. Maybe you can buy your kid one then go find the lady again lol. Or even better buy her a shirt.

Very commendable for letting it go. This is one of those times where you should buy one of those Slowinski shirts and keep it around in case it happens again. If Granny starts with the don't drop your shoulder routine, just put on the new shirt. Don't get your son involved because it would send him the wrong message. Put on the new shirt and make Granny huff and puff in disbelief - All with a smile on your face.

Stan

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 10:56:25 AM »
You have to pick the battles you want to fight, in this case you did the right thing it wasn't worth the fight.  Her comments meant nothing.  Walking away was the best thing you could have done..
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 11:20:16 AM by Stan »

trash heap

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 11:00:46 AM »
Thanks for the replies. Swingset I liked the "saving someone from a fire" LOL!!!

I found a Ron Clifton Article about Dropping the Shoulder.

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip40.htm

Quote
Dropping the Shoulder
by Ron Clifton
 
All my bowling life I have heard “settee” coaches and a few professional coaches tell bowlers NOT to drop their shoulder. I have witnessed countless times bowlers pulling the ball inside their target with a dipping shoulder and heard a well-meaning teammate proclaim “You are dropping your shoulder”.  In fact, the pulled shot had nothing to do with the dropped shoulder…but I will admit it sure looks that way. I will explain the true reason for the pulled shot later.

What we actually have here is a clash between the “Old School” bowling style and the “Modern Game”. The old school style was to keep everything square and straight…which makes a lot of sense, so how could you argue with it?
 
Well I guess you have to start accepting that there may be a better way when all the “Modern Game” guys begin beating the “Old School Guys”. I often look to the pro tour to settle such matters because it is the ultimate battlefield when it comes to bowling and the players are the best in the world. The top 4 money earners on tour last year were all “Modern Game Dippers”. In fact, the vast majority of players on tour last year were “Modern Game Dippers”. 

Why drop the shoulder?

A few of the benefits of dropping the shoulder are:
•        A smooth landing for the ball
•        Better leverage for the release
•        Aligns the ball better with your vision
•        Moves the ball closer to your body’s center of gravity.
•        Allows for more forgiveness
 
Let’s take a quick look at each of these benefits and see how they affect our game:
 
•        “A smooth landing”: Most of today’s bowling balls are designed to skid on oil as if it were ice, then grip the lane like a race tire on asphalt when it reaches the end of the oil pattern. The transition from skid to grip is one of the most critical factors in our quest for high scores. A smooth landing will make this transition more predictable. A rough “old school” landing will cause too much under / over reaction where some balls hook more than others. Bowling on flatter oil patterns like Sport condition or PBA conditions makes this even more critical.
 
•       â€œBetter leverage for the release”: The term “leverage” in bowling means having the release take place at a spot where your body has the best mechanical advantage. If you think about it, we deliver the ball pretty much standing on one foot. Standing on one foot, humans are already in an unstable position. Then add the additional weight and forces associated with a moving bowling ball and we really begin to struggle to be stable. For us to be the best bowlers we can be, we must have the ball in our best leverage position at the point of release. This will give us the most revs with the least amount of effort.
 
•      “Aligns the ball better with your vision”: If you have not noticed lately your vision comes from your head and your head is in the vertical center of your body. If you allow your bowling ball to swing from your shoulder and keep your shoulders level, then the ball will swing several inches to one side of your vision. Dropping the shoulder puts the ball nearly under your head at the release point which is more inline with your vision. Sometimes when we “pull” the ball inside of our target, it comes from trying to “aim” the ball at the target. When the ball is swinging several inches outside of our vision, it makes this problem worse. It is true that a level-shouldered bowler can be just as accurate as a dropped shoulder bowler, but only if that bowler can resist the temptation to “aim” the ball.
 
•      “Moves the ball closer to your body’s center of gravity”: The closer the ball swings to our body’s center of gravity, the more stable we become. Having the ball swing close to our center of gravity is part of our ideal leverage point.
 
•       â€œAllows for more forgiveness”: This means we can make some small mistakes in our timing or footwork and suffer smaller penalties. When the ball is released at our best leveraged spot these small mistakes can create minor changes in our ball path. When the ball is out of position at the release point these small mistakes are magnified into large changes in our ball path.
 
But what about that pulled shot with the dropped shoulder that everyone sees in the league I spoke of earlier? Most of those pulled shots actually come from early timing. The ball gets to the release position too soon forcing the shoulder to collapse more than normal.
 
The ball’s early arrival actually pulls “you” instead of you pulling “it”. This is one of those cases where the term “pulled shot” is really a misnomer because the ball is doing all the pulling. So in most cases, the “settee” coaches are seeing the “result” of early timing which is the collapse of the shoulder (more than normal) and the ball going inside of the intended target. This causes them to suggest the dropped shoulder as the cause of the pulled shot.

 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 11:11:02 AM by trash heap »
Talkin' Trash!

Spider Ball Bowler

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2014, 11:01:28 AM »
Next time feel free to use any of these (all said with deadpan seriousness as you stare at her)

1. "Your granddaughter is ugly"

2. "My son injured his shoulder saving someone from a housefire"

3. "Are you coming on to me?"

4. "You know, you're right...I'll take to him with the belt or the curling iron when we get home"

5. "I know it's his shoulder, that's because he's drunk off his ass"

I laughed out loud at work and my co workers are looking at me funny lol

Artimust

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Re: Do you argue or let it go. I chose to let it go!
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2014, 12:00:53 PM »
You did the right thing by not arguing with her.  You are right, but there are more factors involved with just dropping the shoulder.  Go to Coach Joe Slowinski's website and also subscribe to his Facebook page, Drop Your Damn Shoulder!  There is much more involved, but with practice (lots of practice) it can revolutionize the game if a bowler chooses to impliment this system.  I'm trying to do it, very technical, but the more you practice it, the more natural it feels...I'm just not there yet, but getting there slowly.