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Author Topic: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?  (Read 2062 times)

Pinbuster

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Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« on: July 02, 2003, 05:19:25 PM »
Does the game of bowling as it is currently played, flawed and can never be fair to all participants?

I know of no other game that the results can be influenced so greatly by an outside agency altering the playing field. The lane man can eliminate certain players from contention? Want a left handed player to win, they can lock out the right side or visa versa. Want a big hooker to win? A stroker? A straight player? A cranker? Conditions can be set out that favors each. In a long running tournament you can pick a day and put out a better scoring condition for that day only or even just one squad or even one pair. All of this is invisible to the participants

Tennis? Everyone plays on the same size court, the net is the same height. The court surface is the same for both competitors. Sure there are clay court experts and fast court players but they both will play on the same surface and they know what the surface will be going in. Contestants get to pick and string their own rackets but outside variables are a minimum.

Golf? On a given course the yardage doesn’t change, the hole size is constant, the pins are in the same place all day, most course have a balance of dogleg right and left. The contestants get to pick their own clubs and balls but other than weather no outside variables come into play. If a course was setup with all dogleg rights/lefts the contestants would know ahead of time and could simply opt out.

Basketball? The hoop is 10 foot, the rim has a fixed diameter, the ball is a fixed diameter (except for the women but constant for them), they both play on the same court and switch ends.

 

Goof1073

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2003, 09:34:21 AM »
Even if you colored the oil what exactly would that gain you?  You can easily look out of the lanes know and see where the track is and where the play has been.  The only thing that could possibly help anything is if the color additive tinted the oil in such a way that you could definitively see the difference in units.  Even then you would still have to learn how to adjust to what you see on the lane.

A_P_K

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2003, 09:50:32 AM »
What I feel that the real flaw in bowling now and days, "hobby, game, or sport", is how much the bowler actually worries or complains.

How are the lanes oiled?  Are the pins the right weight?  This guy scores but he's all over the lanes.  I can't carry to save my life.  Is he really bagging?  

This is the nonsense that makes the older generation of bowlers look down on us younger bowlers.  I have a 62 year old cousin who said I used every excuse in the book when I bowl.  I never did understand what he was talking about until recently reading up on some of these threads.  At first I thought he held a grudge against the younger generation (I'm 26) because they had the particles, reactives, hook in a box, and those so called walls at their disposal.  If more bowlers stopped thinking about everything else except the one thing they should keep their mind in, bowling wouldn't be the way it is.  

Bowlers who compete in tournaments that complain about getting beat by a "sprayer", probably should focus harder on just making quality shots, don't let anything distract.  If you should so happen to lose, then that's the way it is.  Sometimes it's a spayers day to bring home some money.  Just about every decent bowler out there has been beaten by someone like that.  

I'm not a good bowler by any means, but I am above average, and I learned a valuable lesson from my cousin, accidentally.  When I thought he was full of B/S and just jealous, it was his level of maturity towards the sport he competes in kicking me in the head.  

Take out the emotional side completely, focus on your shots, and shoot the best possibly at that time.  Then, you'll have the sport of bowling back.
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Bjaardker

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2003, 11:07:56 AM »
quote:
Tennis? Everyone plays on the same size court, the net is the same height. The court surface is the same for both competitors. Sure there are clay court experts and fast court players but they both will play on the same surface and they know what the surface will be going in. Contestants get to pick and string their own rackets but outside variables are a minimum.


I have to disagree with you on this anology.

In bowing we bowling on the same 2 lanes as our opponents, just like we play on the same court in tennis. As you said there are experts for each surfcae just like in bowling where there are experts for certain patterns. Myself, I bowl poorly on the wall compared to a cranker, but on a flat pattern I can womp them most of the time. As far as determining what the surface is before play, in tennis there's no knowing how fast the grass is playing until you play, or how soft the clay is, the same as bowling.

Reguardless, the best always seem to rise to the top no matter what condition. In tennis the same stars are always in the running no matter what the surface. In bowling, the same stars tend to be on top as well.




Edited on 7/3/2003 11:12 AM

MI 2 AZ

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2003, 11:16:55 AM »
quote:
In bowing we bowling on the same 2 lanes as our opponents, just like we play on the same court in tennis


That is true for league play, but tournaments are different as Sawbones mentioned earlier.
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mumzie

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2003, 11:19:48 AM »
Bjaardker,
Surprisingly, we agree on something.

Would it make anyone feel better if, before league or a tournament, the graph was circulated, and everyone had to initial that they'd seen it?
That way the oiling pattern wouldn't be "invisible". Of course, that graph is only valid until the first few shots are thrown, then the shot changes.

That, I believe, is the true skill of bowling, other than timing and release. If you can read the lanes and make the right adjustments ahead of the next guy, you win. If you make 'em late, you lose. Therefore, the better bowler, who knows when they make a good shot, and don't second guess themselves, will usually win. Everyone is theoretically bowling on the same condition - should I blame the lane man when my opponent outscores me? Last night, the guy I was bowling in league had a fantastic matchup for his game - he went 258-299-192. I was bowling on the same pair - 194-204-192. I could hit the pocket too - but he could score. Was that the laneman's fault??? I don't think so.

Now of course, there are true cases where the laneman shuts someone out. We had a case like that in a local swiss a few months ago. We bowled 4 games, broke for lunch. They dressed the heads, without dragging or any other attention to the lane. The lefties were shooting out of their minds - one of them had an 840something the last 3 games. In the same games, on the same lanes, James Hylton (remember him- #5 mr 900) shot 540, I shot 550, my partner shoots 540. So yes - the lane man did shut us out. No question.
But - there have also been times the lefties have been shut out, so I guess it evens out.
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Ishmael

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2003, 11:24:45 AM »
quote:
In bowing we bowling on the same 2 lanes as our opponents, just like we play on the same court in tennis.


This is only true in a league setting or a match play situation.  Typically not the case in a tournament.  I think this is the biggest problem with most short format tournaments - everyone does NOT compete on the same conditions.

Pinbuster

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2003, 12:15:22 PM »
Sawbones - I don't feel the basic game is flawed but the surface it is played on and the way it is prepared is flawed. I would guess 100 years ago that the lanes might not have been oiled at all. Besides that, some of the beauty of the early surfaces was that they where so soft and porous that the oil did not move and I believe it was more difficult to block a lane. Now the lanes became easy as the track area wore and formed a trough to the pocket, but that pocket was visible to all.

The PBA is announcing what the lane patterns will be at all their tournaments next year. There is a fear that certain players will elect to skip tournaments that has a pattern that they do not handle well. Now the best will continue to go to all the tournaments and the more versatile will win but shouldn’t you be able to know what you are entering into?

Even at ABC nationals, most will tell you when bowling doubles and singles that much of the time your ability to score (particularly high numbers) is based on how the players in front of you played the lanes. If they play all over the lane and chop it up then you are in trouble. If the play an area of the lane fairly well then they can open the shot up for you.  But why should you be at the mercy of the group in front of you? (I don’t know how they could change this other than to have everyone roll on a fresh shot and logistically that is impossible) (Mercy may be the wrong word but it could make the difference between shooting a small 6 or a 700, and look at the scores for team bowled on fresh conditions versus doubles and singles).

You know where the oil is where you threw the last shot or two. But if that line quits working then you are moving into a minefield. Yes most houses put more oil in the center of the lane but what if they didn’t. You might find out that just 3 boards left of where you are playing is bone dry and the ball would hook even earlier.

The blind hole in golf is blind to all who play it. Not just lefties or righties. It’s not a blind hole one day and not the next.

Bjaardker – Pet Samparas never won a major on clay although he has won more grand slam titles than any male player ever. But he went into a tournament knowing what the surface was. Grass may be mildly variable but it will always play fast.

Mumzie – They put up a graph but the lane man doesn’t have to run that shot. How many times has someone said the lanes didn’t play at all like the graph?

Colored oil may be an answer but that doesn’t stop the lane man from changing the shot. And if you hadn’t seen the shot earlier who knows it different. And the color would have to indicate volume as well as location.

We simply need a surface that requires no lane conditioner. But unless it could be economically applied to existing surfaces this will never happen.

If the lane surface was consistent at each house, some houses could be softer or harder, and no external influence would be put on the lanes. Then the person who was the most consistent with their roll and accuracy would be the winner. If you could throw more power consistently and accurately then you would be the winner. Isn’t that the game should be about?

joegunn

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2003, 12:22:25 PM »
You're definitely at the mercy of the lane man.  I was at the Showboat in Atlantic City when it opened in 1987, and was watching Dick Weber trying to throw a strike for a TV commercial.  The problem was all he had was a purple Angle and the synthetic lanes had been installed and never oiled.  After about a dozen shots that missed the headpin left, he carried a Brooklyn strike that rolled out at 30 feet, and that's the one they used.

Other than the camera crew, I think I was the only person in the center who knew who he was...but that's an issue for another day.  So after he finished filming, I joked with him about it, had a picture taken and got an autograph.  Even after that debacle, he was a class act and a true champion.  I wonder if Pete would have handled it the same way?!?

Bjaardker

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2003, 12:25:24 PM »
I guess it sounds to me like you want all of the houses to be like the Kegel facility in florida.

I got an e-mail on it a few days back, maybe someone kept it & can post it here.

"The Foundation" is claiming this is going to be the fairest tournament ever & will show who the "TRUE" world champion is. (I don't really buy it since it's an invitational only)

The lanes all are adjustable in crown & tilt to the thousandth of an inch. Stuff like that. It's really interesting.

MI 2 AZ

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Re: Does bowling have a fatal flaw?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2003, 07:21:55 PM »
Bjaardker,

Did you mean this from The Foundation?

________________________________________________

Kegel will find out who is the Best in the World


Is it a dream come true?  To those who love this sport a scenario like whats about to happen has always been just a pie in the sky dream.  This is a tournament where the worlds best amateur and professional bowlers, both men and women, compete on the perfect bowling environment in a format that guarantees absolute fairness like never before.  John Davis, working with Len Nicholson and the Foundation, have put together an event that the world could only dream about until now!


Introducing the World Ranking Masters followed by the International Foundation Games Championship!


The Place: Kegel Training Center in Lake Wales, Florida USA


This brand new facility was designed by John Davis to be the ultimate controlled environment.  It is the perfect bowling center for the true sport.  The facility boasts of several features NEVER BEFORE done in the bowling world.  All 12 lanes are adjustable.  Yes, adjustable.  They are adjustable in 5 places across the lane, every 2 feet down the lane, including the pin deck.  Each lane has 160 adjusting points.  This is the first facility where every lane has the exact same topography, down to a thousandth-of-an-inch or closer.  Each lane is the ideal competitive shape with regards to crowns/depressions and crosswise/lengthwise tilt.  Also, each lane is equipped with the latest C.A.T.S. (computer aided tracking system) program, originally designed by ABC/WIBC Equipment Specifications.  You will be able to see the exact ball location, RPMs, angles, and speed of every shot thrown.  If you are one of the lucky few spectators, you can watch this all from the skybox outside Johns office.  


The Formats:


Two different Multi-condition formats will be used in the WRM and the IFG.  Each player will bowl on distinctly different patterns an equal amount of games.  This format, which has been proven through the previous 5 prototypes and 16 Foundation Games, will remove the advantage of matching up to a specific lane condition.  The lane conditioner that will be used is vastly superior to anything ever before - the break point doesn't move.  This is a format where the lane condition and the breakdown of the lane conditioner by bowlers is vastly changed!  It will incredibly reduce guesswork.  Also, this break-through will almost eliminate the unfairness of what bowlers you follow.  We are getting much closer to the perfect bowling tournament on lanes that have the tightest specifications in the World.
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