Author Topic: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball? (Read 2086 times)

1MechEng · « **on:** July 08, 2009, 01:55:01 PM »

Again, I start with the disclaimer that I realize that the drilling, coverstock, and release are the largest effectors of a ball's motion on the lane.

This question dovetails my search for a strong, angular skid/flip ball.
Many of the pearl balls (esp. those from Visionary) seem to have a higher Rg core value. To me, this means that the ball is a little harder to rev up initially, but is able to conserve a little more energy as it travels down the lane for the back end, meaning a more pronounced move upon hitting the dry.

Is this generally a correct assumption?
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Dan
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Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.

Bowling Nerd Herd (TM) Member

six pack · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2009, 09:59:33 PM »

in general YES. low rg will roll early and high rg will roll later.I still own a Track ETS and it's a skid/flip monster http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=179
put a high rg layout on a tropical storm and you will have a good flip reaction. http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=2922&x=5
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The harder I try the harder they fall

Edited on 7/8/2009 10:06 PM

VIXIV · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:06:29 PM »

Sorry to hijack...

A high diff. value will help it use up all that stored energy, too, right?

six pack · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:18:01 PM »

a high diff works well when the oil is pushed down some but off of dry becomes less controllable.you would see a stronger continuation with a hrg/hi diff ball but for short oil you probably would be fighting the ball/reaction.these are general reactions I've seen.
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The harder I try the harder they fall

Edited on 7/8/2009 10:18 PM

HamPster · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:35:22 PM »

Yeah, the ball will delay getting into a roll, so it can more violently turn the corner when it hits friction. Most high rg balls are also pearl, so the high rg can aid the natural tendency of pearl balls to go long and finish hard.
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This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.

1MechEng · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2009, 10:05:44 AM »

Thanks for the confirmation, guys!
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Dan
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Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.

Bowling Nerd Herd (TM) Member

J_w73 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:15:06 PM »

More hijacking..
Do you find more snap, angularity, or backend with a high rg layout with a high differential. I know higher differential means more flare .. and more flare usually means earlier smoother hook .. but from what I have seen I think it provides more backend.

example... a 5 to 5 1/2 inch pin to pap, 1.5 inch from the VAL, with and without a weigth hole 6 3/4 inches from the pin near the thumb hole. The hole will increase the differential and flare.. what do you think it would do for the reaction?? .. how would the two balls compare??
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:22:11 PM »

a way to look at it.. a lower rg is like a figure skater with their arms tucked.. higher rg is like a figure skater with there arms out.. arms in spins faster for a given force inputted.. arms out spins slower for a given force..

so a higher rg will rev slower for a given force imparted upon it.. that is the general rule.

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

1MechEng · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2009, 04:48:17 PM »

J-w73 ... a good question. I understand the Rg portion of it, but was wondering about the effect when it came to the dry portion of the lane.

But the differential to me is another issue. For me, the diff. is the potential for the ball to have a certain amount of axis migration. (A larger diff means a larger move, which means more change of direction based on the core shape. Note that this is different than the change in direction due to the coverstock alone). In my mind, this means that the ball has the ability to help more of a forward roll transition to a side roll (hopefully near or at the breakpoint) via axis migration for more entry angle.

Again, I'm kind of looking for confirmation that this is correct/incorrect.
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Dan
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Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.

Bowling Nerd Herd (TM) Member

J_w73 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2009, 05:07:44 PM »

quote:
J-w73 ... a good question. I understand the Rg portion of it, but was wondering about the effect when it came to the dry portion of the lane.

But the differential to me is another issue. For me, the diff. is the potential for the ball to have a certain amount of axis migration. (A larger diff means a larger move, which means more change of direction based on the core shape. Note that this is different than the change in direction due to the coverstock alone). In my mind, this means that the ball has the ability to help more of a forward roll transition to a side roll (hopefully near or at the breakpoint) via axis migration for more entry angle.

Again, I'm kind of looking for confirmation that this is correct/incorrect.
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Dan
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Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.

Bowling Nerd Herd (TM) Member

I don't think the increase in differential will create more side roll.. it could give more backend but not necessarily directly because of the axis migration..
here is what I know about it.. an increase in differential will cause increased flare... increased flare brings more seperation between the flare rings which brings more fresh ball surface in contact with the lane.. so it could result in a bigger backend.. heres how in my mind..

on medium dry - dry.. the more flare will make the ball hook early regardless..
but say you have a pretty heavy volume of oil with clean dry backends..
the ball will skid in the oil just because of the sheer volume but when the ball gets to the end of the pattern the flaring will allow the ball to hit a completely dry part of the coverstock and therefore hook harder on the backend..

does that make sense..not sure if it goes in the direction you were thinking though.. if you think it is still valid,if you could clarify what you were describing I will think about it some more.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

EboKnight · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2009, 05:13:13 PM »

yes, as long as the surface allows it too. high diff equals high flare which generally creates more kick off the corner.
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Matt Williams
Precision Pro Shop: June 04 - Present
Ebonite Staff: Bowl to Win
www.Ebonite.com
www.BowlToWin.com

J_w73 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2009, 05:40:15 PM »

quote:
yes, as long as the surface allows it too. high diff equals high flare which generally creates more kick off the corner.
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Matt Williams
Precision Pro Shop: June 04 - Present
Ebonite Staff: Bowl to Win
www.Ebonite.com
www.BowlToWin.com

so as long as it doesn't burn up before it gets to the breakpoint more flare should create more kick vs less flare..
and am I right that it does this because of the fresh ball surface on the fresh lane surface ??
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Author Topic: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball? (Read 2086 times)

1MechEng

Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

six pack

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

VIXIV

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

six pack

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

HamPster

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

1MechEng

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

J_w73

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

J_w73

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

1MechEng

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

J_w73

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

EboKnight

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?

J_w73

Re: Does higher RG promote a skid/flip type reaction in a pearl ball?