Author Topic: Does League bowling destroy your game? (Read 7042 times)

Game In a BoxLC · « **on:** June 15, 2003, 10:15:04 AM »

A friend of mine told me he may not bowl in any leagues next season at all. He is probably the best and most dominant/intimidating player in the area. He said he is sick of getting beat by league yokels who take his money and that bowling on league walls ruin his game and make him more prone to make bad shots or get used to having area.

He makes a very valid point as well. Why should he spend 20 dollars a week just for league fee, plus brackets/eliminators/jackpot which is another 30-40 to get beat by inferior house bowlers on a wall. Because of the wall he doesn't have the area and carry of most of the league yokels, meaning more times than not he isn't going to make jack squat in brackets and league fees.

Take into account this kid isnt a local yokel, he at one time was rated one of the best youth bowlers in the nation, and is probably the most dominant bowler in the area, he hits the ball harder than almost anyone i've ever seen and can split half boards at his breakpoint. He had a 215 average on a sport shot, this kid is just a machine.

He told me he is going to save his money and load up on more brackets in the tournaments he bowls in where the playing field is a bit more equal and he can be rewarded for making quality shots and having a damn solid game.

I started thinking about it, and he is right, why should we spend this money to bowl, especially for scratch bowlers, i personally am sick of getting my head handed to me by a house yokels who cant hold my jock strap on a hard condition. We aren't going to make much back, i think i got 200 from my league i payed 18 dollars a week for and we finished second. I didn't make too much in brackets and normally put 30-35 into them. I also carried a 220 average and i would regularly shoot 250-270 games and lose. Whereas in a tournament which is more demanding this doesn't happen as much.

With one of the top bowlers in the area stopping league bowling, i'm thinking about it, i'm sure there are many scratch bowlers saying the same thing. The conditions are driving away the areas best because they dont like donating to house yokels. I mean whats next?

I just wanted your thoughts and comments on this, i just thought it was interesting and perplexing, he makes a very good point, and if this new league coming out here by Fred Borden sucks i may go the way he does and just bowl in tournaments. I mean for 10 bucks i can get way more out of a practice session for tournaments.

--------------------
am i still considered a lefty, i never get to play the left side of the lane

Sir_rev-a-lot · « **Reply #16 on:** June 16, 2003, 06:28:06 PM »

NO matter how much we beat this topic, things won't change. The number of bowlers in ABC has been dwindling exponentially. You have to accept the fact that most nights you might get beat by someone whos only gift is hitting hte ball. I find myself complaining, but once I leave the center, its forgotten. NOthing I can do will cange it, the guy received his reward for being a "wall bowler". If all he wants is to be able to come in bowler a couple of games a week and score, then that is his choice.

One elder gentlemen who used to bowl some Regionals way back in the day, talked to me about the local house which produces an obscene amount of honor scores. He knows his average is inflated beyond all recognition. He is right now in his 60s though, and currently he just bowls a league with his friends/family just to enjoy himself. He just wants to be able to shoots some good scores if eh throws the ball descent and he is satisfied with that.

I, for myself, the last half of a season in one of my leagues decided to put up the ball that allowed me to score the most on that condition, used another ball that forced me to make more precise shots to score because the matchup wan't there. This was my way of practicing, and keeping league bowling into its perspective.

By the way, scratch leagues??? Hmmm, I heard about that, buts its been a year or two since one has been seen in my near area.

98custom · « **Reply #17 on:** June 16, 2003, 06:50:35 PM »

LeftyCrank300, i have a quetion regarding your second post, in it you say that you should have room if you have hand. i just want to say that that is not everyones style. There are many great players out there without a ton of hand and your making it sound like the conditions should favor people with bigger hands. If you start going that route the average joe and even the accurate strokes of the game are going to quit becase they won't be able to create nearly as much room as joe shmo who revs the ball like no other... Just something to think about.
--------------------
When all else fails, become a lefty

10 In The Pit · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2003, 01:13:51 AM »

I see several things wrong with this picture here. First, if a bowler is THAT good, then they should be killing other bowlers if there is a wall shot up, since the wall gives BOTH bowlers an advantage, and the higher skilled bowler should have a significant accuracy and carry advantage.

As for throwing money away, why would I invest $40 in brackets if I thought that I didn't stand a chance on earning anything back? And, whatever happened to SCRATCH brackets too?.....maybe some of the bowlers with bigger egos would care to enter into the SCRATCH brackets, so that handicap no longer enters the picture. You can run brackets either scratch, handicap, or you can run both types at the same time (if you have enough entries in the scratch division).....this would put the edge back in the "skilled" bowler's corner, and the wannabe is rolling the dice.

What I see here is too many bowlers trying to get rich at league bowling. Considering that most of your weekly fees go towards lineage, you're not gonna get rich bowling leagues. If you have someone running brackets, ask them to run both handicap AND scratch brackets, and the bowlers can choose which division they care to invest their money in. If the wannabes feel lucky, then they too will enter the scratch brackets with the big dogs.....if not, then the wannabes will stay on the porch.

Maybe my area is just a fluke, but I do see SCRATCH tournaments being held on a fairly regular basis around here. Sure, you might have to drive a few hours to get to the house where they have the next one at, but these tournaments do exist, normally with longer game formats or multi-block formats. There's something out there for just about every skill level, if you feel that handicap bowling is crimping your style.

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2003, 01:17:19 PM »

quote:
It is because this league is nothing but a bunch of sandbaggers. Last nite, a 120 average bowler had a 723 series! not one of the other team bowled less than 45 pins above their average! This is happening week after week after week. Then we give them handicap of 50 to 100 pins right off the bat. My team is not slacking, we are very consistent. Leadoff is my wife, 132 average, next is our good friend 110 average, then me 168 average and my brother the anchor man, 191 average. We bowl consistently around our average but keep getting beat by these teams.

Melonhead, I'm sorry to point out that if they're shooting 700's off of 120 averages, and your team is just shooting average, then they are the worst sandbaggers ever! I guarantee a genuine sandbagger would NEVER shoot anything more than he/she needed to squeak out the win and keep their avg. low. (It's a disgusting practice, and IMO all sandbaggers should be hung by their genitals so they cannot further contaminate the gene pool with more liars and cheats).

However, I do sympathize with you somewhat. Seemed like last season everyone we were giving hdcp. to had the night of their season against us. When you looked at the standings though, you realized they couldn't have been bagging on purpose or they'd win a lot more games. Just something you have to take in stride since it's part of the game.

--------------------
9-

Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!

Game In a BoxLC · « **Reply #20 on:** June 17, 2003, 01:46:06 PM »

1-because i have a hand i do not think i should have more area than anyone. But when i see a 220 average bowler who has no rev rates, a low side roll or spin, no accuracy, a heavy load particle ball that regularly kicks out 5-7's for him, while i do not have the same type of area, it makes me sick. Maybe i'm not playing the lanes right, perhaps i should go up and just drop the ball behind me, rear up, hit anywere between 2nd and 4th arrow, let the ball hook into the pins. I guess thats what im going to need to do to accell at bowling since as people put it these guys are better than me.

2-I'm not quitting league bowling, i said my friend is considering it because of some of the reasons stated, he feels it just doesn't help him when it comes to tournaments and he can get more out of a practice session for two hours where he pays eight dollars for it and can bowl 10-15 games. He isn't definite about it, i simply posed the question and his reasons why he was considering it.

3-I'm not a whiner, i'm really not, and i don't think i should have ungodly area because i can hit the ball, i can do many things with a bowling ball from stroke it to kill it to hit it. I can play pretty much any part of the lane. I don't bowl to get rich, i bowl because i love bowling, i love competition. I lose alot at it and i don't usually get mad or upset when i do. I know in my heart the people beating me in these leagues can't do crap on a tougher shot which i would still average 180-210 on.

Again i don't want them to quit, or even for ABC t ochange. I guess i bowl in a weird part of the world, every house has a huge wall, and there isn't one league that offers a challenging shot for league play. I just wish there was so we could go there and know i have to bowl well to do well but also my opponent has to do the same thing.
--------------------
am i still considered a lefty, i never get to play the left side of the lane

RSalas · « **Reply #21 on:** June 17, 2003, 02:23:34 PM »

I can say categorically that league bowling hasn't destroyed my game. That's because I never *had* a game to start with.

card79 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 17, 2003, 02:30:26 PM »

Sometimes it is just a carry contest and you have to just grin and get over it or let it eat you up.
--------------------
I don't really play cards and I am not 79, but it fits together somehow.

HamPster · « **Reply #23 on:** June 17, 2003, 04:25:00 PM »

I think what lefty means is that his shot hits the pocket with a lot more power than the fluffers that don't know what they're doing, and they get the carry. I know how he feels, there's a girl that throws maybe 6 revs, about 15 mph with a 14 lb ball and she carries EVERYTHING, and I mean everything. She kicks mixer 7's, even gets freakin messengers, it's just wrong. And especially when they get a big head, and guys like me and lefty practice all the time working on stuff, and they just show up to league and let the wall carry them to scores. We'd rather bowl on tougher shots, because it raises the level of competition and gives rewards justly. Fluffers aren't going to score on a sport shot, and that's the way it should be. You all should know that no one wants to work hard for money just to see some shmuck fall into a high paying job when he didn't do anything to earn it. That applies to bowling.
--------------------
I know Kung Fu!

I am the one, the one that will bring balance. All the pins shall be destroyed!

Pinbuster · « **Reply #24 on:** June 17, 2003, 05:12:55 PM »

A lot of the problem is that what is the definition of power. Everyone has a different concept of power. To me any more power utilitzed that is needed to knock out the 5 is overkill.

Good bowlers match up their speed, turn, axis, and other factors to maximize carry for their roll of the ball.

I know a bowler that to watch him bowl you would think he threw a weak spinner. But his roll was such that it carried very well on virtually any condition. Bowlers that appeared to have much more powerful releases came and went but over a 25 year period virtually no one would beat him, no one. Not Justin Hromek, not Chris Barnes, not Lonnie Waliczek, not Gordon Vadakin, or a host of other college all americans that came thru town. The only bowler I saw that could was Rick Steelsmith before he hurt his shoulder. This bowler has won a PBA national stop as well and would beat you in a carry contest or a grid out. But he simply did not look impressive.

If some beats you week after week then maybe they bowl better than you think and/or you are not as good as you think you are.

Not having seen him bowl (but judging what he has said about his game on this board) but I think a lot of the kids would think Bob Hanson is a fluffer but he could beat virtually anyone on this board especially in a long format.

CPA · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2003, 06:40:59 PM »

We need to remember bowling is a game. Let's have some fun. I enjoy handicap leagues. If you give other bowlers a lot of handicap, it forces you to concentrate on every shot. A few years ago we won our league for ther second year in a row. The next year we suggested the handicap be raised to 100% of 200. Let everybody have a chance. The league grew and it was pretty competitive. We didn't win the league, but had a great time. Our bowling also improved due to the extra concentration that was needed for each game.

Also stop bowling at the easy houses. Find a center that doesn't wall up the lanes.

For the times it is serious and not for fun, bowl in a sport league. I bowled in my first sport league this past year. That was a great experience. In my opinion though, a sport shot does not favor the bowlers who cover a lot of boards. It also doesn't increase your carry. It just seems like it does when you compare the carry of a better bowler to a less accomplished bowler.

trash heap · « **Reply #26 on:** June 17, 2003, 09:25:23 PM »

Here I go. If you believe that someone with less skill should not beat you and your buddy, then find something else to do. Welcome to reality!

I guess scoring in bowling needs to change. These rules need to be in place:

1. Hit your mark on your strike ball = STRIKE
2. High Revs = STRIKE, Medium Revs = Keep Score, Low Revs = -4 on Frame
3. Speed: Fast(Above 22MPH)=STRIKE, Medium(15-22)=Keep Score, Slow(Under 15)=-4. Brooklyn's: A score of 0.
5. Carrying the 10 or 7 on weak hits: A score of 0.
6. Not Carrying the 10 or 7. If consider Loud Pocket Hit = STRIKE.
7. Type of ball using (Adding/Subtracting per Frame):
Old Rubber = Keep Score
Plastic = -1
Urethane = -4
Reactive = -6
Particle = -8
8. Amount of Bowling Balls you bring. Subtract from Total Score.
1 = Keep Original Score
2 = -20
3 = -50
4 = -80
Above 4 = -300
9. Bowl on Sport League = Add 20 to total score.
10. Bowl on Wall Shot = Subtract 60 from total score.
11. Use a wrist support = Subtract 100 from total score.

Please feel free to add or change any these.

HamPster · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2003, 01:34:52 AM »

Bob, she averages anywhere from 190-210 depending on how easy of a wall it is. I love seeing her leave the 8-10's though, she's stuck up and prissy. Her and her boyfriend prebowled over half the season (70-some out of 120-some games), and seeing as how the practice conditions are too easy for words, they averaged high and then had the nerve to tell anybody that got upset about it that we were just jealous of their averages. An example of the typical house bowler at its best.
--------------------
I know Kung Fu!

I am the one, the one that will bring balance. All the pins shall be destroyed!

Author Topic: Does League bowling destroy your game? (Read 7042 times)

Game In a BoxLC

Does League bowling destroy your game?

Sir_rev-a-lot

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

98custom

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

10 In The Pit

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

9andaWiggle

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

Game In a BoxLC

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

RSalas

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

card79

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

HamPster

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

Pinbuster

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

CPA

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

trash heap

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?

HamPster

Re: Does League bowling destroy your game?