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Author Topic: Does this statement hold truth?  (Read 6163 times)

tkkshop

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Does this statement hold truth?
« on: March 29, 2016, 01:16:44 PM »
Well guys, does the attached statement hold any truth?

 

ITZPS

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2016, 01:18:34 PM »
Lmao . . good one . .
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 01:24:21 PM »
Who is the judge of talent?  If bowling was just about technique, timing and release no one would have ever beaten David Ozio in the 90's.

tkkshop

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 01:34:23 PM »
Don't shoot the messenger. Just a statement I came across. We can look up and down the lanes and see what looks like talent and what doesn't. I have a guy in my area that averages 230-240 on house with 50+ 300's. Sport, 180 average with 1 career 300. He is a tweener who plays the track area with today's newest hookers. If he were a deadeye, his sport wouldn't be 50 pins lower. So to an extent, I agree. As this bowler is a byproduct of todays China and hookers (bowling balls).

avabob

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2016, 02:12:03 PM »
Succesful styles have always been a product of the environment.  I once watched a video of a match of Ned Days from late in his career.  For you young guys Day was generally considered the greatest bowler of his era until Don Carter came along.  Day threw a big looping full roller with a figure eight release.  His follow through seldom went the same way twice, sometimes up, sometimes across his body, sometimes in between.  He shot close to 700 in the 3 game Championship bowling match, defeating a 21 year old Glenn Allison who had a great style but couldn't crack 600 in the match.

In fact, look at many of the greatest of all time.  Carter with his pitter patter approach and bent arm swing.  Weber coming up out of every shot with his right foot coming around to balance out his approach.  Roth taking any number of steps and literally over powering the lanes with loft and turn.     

avabob

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2016, 02:23:06 PM »
This also may be an appropriate place to make a post I had been thinking about for a couple of days.   

It just occurred to me that the resin ball has now been the primary choice in bowling for 24 years.  I have been bowling for 50 years in adult leagues and tournaments.  That means almost half my competitive career has been spent throwing resin.  I started with hard rubber balls and won my first tournament in 1966 using one.  The plastic ball era lasted basically about 10 years until the urethane Angle came out in 1981.  Likewise the urethane era lasted roughly 10 years until the resin ball was introduced.   

All this means that the resin ball era is now the longest of any piece of equipment in the modern post World War Two era of the game. 

The best bowler in every era has been the bowler who is best able to adopt a release that matches up best to the friction characteristics of the ball and lane surface, and is able to be the most consistent with such a release. 

ICDeadMoney

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2016, 08:39:19 PM »
Think about this as you tout the blessing of resin balls.

Where would resin balls be without walled up lanes.

Evidence shows, there would be about a 50 pin drop in average for many people.



noslouch

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2016, 08:58:22 PM »
Ouch!!!!!
 I can feel the searing pain in peoples eyes after reading that statement. I agree with you there. My avg. hasn't changed over the last 35 yrs. Been whatch'n them crankers drop like flies over the years. Carpal tunnel syndrome, bad knees, bulging disks and muscle strains. The stink eye your about to get. Love it!

avabob

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2016, 09:03:33 PM »
Actually I totally disagree.  Resin balls don't need a wall to be valuable.  In fact the biggest advantage of resin balls to me is on long flat patterns.   Resin balls create more friction for hitting power than urethane or plastic.  That is all.  They are not radar guided and do not give you more margin of error on the lane.  If you are throwing the ball all over the lane, you are not winning with resin, even on house shots. 

As long as we are on this topic, I cant believe how few people give bowlers any credit for being much more talented and knowledgeable than years ago.   When I look back at my skills and knowledge when I was 23 years old compared to today at 68 it is mind boggling.  Send me back to 1970 with the skill and versatility I have today and I would dominate the bowlers in our area at that time using only the equipment we had then.

The good young bowlers today are so much more talented and knowledgeable than I was at their age.     

avabob

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2016, 09:25:01 PM »
Here is another thought since we are on this general topic.  Over the years I have seen lots of posts talking about how the resin balls made bowlers such as WRW and Duke.  I never saw a post stating that polyester balls made Don Johnson or Mark Roth.  Could it be that the bowlers who do best when a new era of equipment comes down the line are those who are best able to adjust their games to the environment. 

I was a better bowler in the polyester era than during the urethane era with short oil.  The reason was because I was not able to adjust me game as well to urethane as many others.  When resin came in I became more competitive again because I was able to adjust my game to the resin balls, and the longer oil that had also returned just prior to the introduction of resin.

tkkshop

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 07:19:44 AM »
My only point is/was, how can you have a 50-60 pin discrepancy between house and sport averages with the same equipment being used for both? Bowler isn't a high rev guy who creates area with revs. He is a by product of equipment. Many of us are. But I'm a 20 pin difference (230-210), which I take pride in. But being a high rev guy, I'm told that my revs are the reason I score. Which is when I tell them, the equipment is why you are. Who is right in this instance?

P.S.- I averaged 217 for half a league with plastic on house. So I see an extra strike a game by using reactive. My teammates on the other hand, lose 2 strikes a game with me using plastic  :D

spmcgivern

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 07:51:44 AM »
Think about this as you tout the blessing of resin balls.

Where would resin balls be without walled up lanes.

Evidence shows, there would be about a 50 pin drop in average for many people.


Imagine the drop in urethane averages if the bowlers had to bowl on 45+ feet of gutter to gutter oil.

There is no one era of bowling that is considered the ultimate representation of the sport.  The game evolves year after year.  Bowler's games adjust to the equipment and the conditions they bowl on.  The vast majority of bowlers agree too.  All you have to do is to start a league with the limitations of using only urethane and see what the turnout is like.  Guarantee worse than the turnout for sport leagues.

And as far as the OP's screenshot statement, I am not sure bowling needs someone to determine when it is allowed to progress and when it is required to stall.  I can see reasoning for limitations in equipment.  But to stop the progress in its tracks would be a death sentence to the sport.

Urethane Game

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 08:18:52 AM »
People, especially younger people, argue that bowling has evolved along with all of the technology that comes with it.  I would argue that the game has devolved.

Someone said you need a wall for resin to be effective.  For resin to be effective, you need squeaky clean back ends which was made possible by machines that both strip and oil at the same time.  Prior to sanction machine technology, stripping happened at most one a week and usually just a couple of times a month.

Balls are stronger, hook more, hit harder but somehow the pins haven't gotten harder to knock down but easier.  Double void pins, bouncy pin decks and kickbacks all make striking easier.  How many times on TV have you seen a bowler leave a solid 8 or 9 and the announcer says the balls simply don't respect the pins?

Until bowling gets back to a place where weak half pocket shots are met with pocket splits not kamikaze scouts, I will simply say that I don't see the game ever returning to a respected sport. 

spmcgivern

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 08:25:43 AM »
People, especially younger people, argue that bowling has evolved along with all of the technology that comes with it.  I would argue that the game has devolved.

Someone said you need a wall for resin to be effective.  For resin to be effective, you need squeaky clean back ends which was made possible by machines that both strip and oil at the same time.  Prior to sanction machine technology, stripping happened at most one a week and usually just a couple of times a month.

Balls are stronger, hook more, hit harder but somehow the pins haven't gotten harder to knock down but easier.  Double void pins, bouncy pin decks and kickbacks all make striking easier.  How many times on TV have you seen a bowler leave a solid 8 or 9 and the announcer says the balls simply don't respect the pins?

Until bowling gets back to a place where weak half pocket shots are met with pocket splits not kamikaze scouts, I will simply say that I don't see the game ever returning to a respected sport. 
Every era is different.  Each subsequent era of bowling poses different challenges.  To insinuate participants today are lesser bowlers simply because they aren't using extinct equipment or extinct lane maintenance programs in idiotic.

No matter which ere you feel is superior, there will be someone who says that era "cheated". 

tkkshop

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Re: Does this statement hold truth?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2016, 08:28:05 AM »
People, especially younger people, argue that bowling has evolved along with all of the technology that comes with it.  I would argue that the game has devolved.

Someone said you need a wall for resin to be effective.  For resin to be effective, you need squeaky clean back ends which was made possible by machines that both strip and oil at the same time.  Prior to sanction machine technology, stripping happened at most one a week and usually just a couple of times a month.

Balls are stronger, hook more, hit harder but somehow the pins haven't gotten harder to knock down but easier.  Double void pins, bouncy pin decks and kickbacks all make striking easier.  How many times on TV have you seen a bowler leave a solid 8 or 9 and the announcer says the balls simply don't respect the pins?

Until bowling gets back to a place where weak half pocket shots are met with pocket splits not kamikaze scouts, I will simply say that I don't see the game ever returning to a respected sport. 
Every era is different.  Each subsequent era of bowling poses different challenges.  To insinuate participants today are lesser bowlers simply because they aren't using extinct equipment or extinct lane maintenance programs in idiotic.

No matter which ere you feel is superior, there will be someone who says that era "cheated".
my ball had a pre-drilled diff of .0604. I did cheat ;D