Author Topic: I believe this..............do you? (Read 1412 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **on:** November 18, 2004, 11:53:46 PM »

Having been in the pro shop biz for awhile now and seeing many different bowlers come through the door with spans that are just way too long for them I have come to the conclusion that finger grips help hide the fact that a bowler is using a span that is far too long.

Most of these bowlers have been using the span for years and therefore will not shorten it at all. I think that having a span that is too long and not using finger grips you would notice alot of pressure spots on your fingers, finger nails etc....that finger grips just do not allow someone to see.

Sure, with finger grips you will have a bad burning sensation on your finger tips if the span is too long. The only problem with that (I will use myself as an example).......before I started doing this on my own I was always told that the burning on the finger tips was showing that I was getting great revs on the ball.

So do you buy into my theory, or do you feel differently?

-EX-

Pinbuster · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2004, 07:59:23 AM »

I agree.

Finger inserts have enough give and the rounded edges help disguise some of the symptoms of long spans.

I would guess that Â½ the bowlers that came into the shop where I worked for the first time had spans that were too long, some as much as Â½ inch to long. It is some of the reason they put reverse in their thumbs so they donâ€™t lock up in the ball.

Very few of the long time pros have long spans they all throw relaxed finger tip fits.

Pinbuster · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2004, 08:12:11 AM »

Sawbones â€“ The span is generally measured inside of a thumb hole to inside the finger hole. A good ball driller should allow for the insert material.

We did this by drilling the finger insert holes first and then putting the correct inserts into the ball. We then measured back down the center line for the thumb placement.

Once you get one drilled correctly then you can get a cut to cut measurement for future. This is particularly helpful if they use both thumb slugs and finger inserts.

mrteach3 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2004, 08:20:13 AM »

Agreed Ex,

I do often see many people with too long of a span. We have always been a shop that has been looked at being a little shorter in measuring spans than most, but not as short as many others.

In talking to Jack Jurek(Central Regional Point Leader), he said that IBPSIA(I think) promotes shorter spans and less reverse pitch nowadays.

We have no doubt brought that thought process to our shop and are currently mentioning it to all of our customers. Some have wanted to try it, others are very comfortable the way we have fit them in the past. I know I went to less reverse and 1/16 shorter span. Tried even shorter, but didn't like it at all. But wow, has it made a difference. Not in score, those are still the same, but in the smaller amount of effort I have to put forth to throw the ball.
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Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!

Scolai · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2004, 08:21:18 AM »

Most of your longer spans are throwback to the urethane era when balls were regularly drilled with stretch-grip spans. In the days of urethane, this was perfectly normal, however with modern reactive equipment, the stretch grip is just not practical.

I just had all new equipment punched a couple of months ago and had my span decreased by about 3/8" and my reverse pitch dropped from 3/4" to 1/4". All of my old drillings were copied from my first Black U-Dot.

I'm much more comfortable now and I get out of the ball a heck of a lot better now that I don't have to squeeze the bejeezus out of it.
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Nut

Proud owner of a 1046/4 series courtesy of Columbia 300.

None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free....

Ragnar · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2004, 08:48:23 AM »

quote:
Most of these bowlers have been using the span for years and therefore will not shorten it at all.

-EX-

Wasn't it common, in fact even recommended, years back to have a stretched span? That would explain where the long span came from in the first place. I know that 15 or so years ago I used a span that was stretched WAY beyond what I use now.
Your thinking seems good to me.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.

BuckeyBalls · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2004, 09:25:44 AM »

I have been bowling less than a year after a 7 year layoff. During this time I've have had 3 different spans.

My first balls drilled by driller #1 the span was copied from one of my balls from years ago. No hand measurements at all. Bad!

Went to a seminar and was told that my span was wrong (short)...and had to have all my balls redrilled (my decision). Driller #2 measured me and drilled the fingers to the first knuckle.

Next, I went to another seminar and was told that my span was too long. Driller #3 told me that the edge of the finger hole should be inbetween the first and the second knuckle. By now I had way too many balls to make changes on all my stuff. So I purchased a Depth Charge with the new span.

With the new span I am getting sooo much more revs because I am not squeezing the ball like I used to. My game has improved using the shorter span...coaching has helped also...

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I need a mulligan!

pin-chaser · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2004, 09:29:29 AM »

Rags,

Depends on who you listen to. Bill Taylors book has been out since the 60's proclaiming what is widely accepted today. However, during the 70's and 80's he was considered a quack so why would anyone use his suggestion.

I owned and ran a proshop for the entire 80's and yes we measured spans at that time with the thumb completely seated to the first crease on the figers... by todays standards it is aleast 1/2" long. As yes we compensated for the width of the finger grips edges (1/8") and added alot of reverse. Here was the explaination we used... the longer the span the more time you had after the thumb cleared to "hit" the ball. Consequently that thinking was proved wrong (at least to me) becuase it was more difficult learning to squeeze the ball to hold onto to it during the back swing and relax the grip at the exact moment to clear the thumb with the added time to "hit" it.

For many bowlers they are still maintaining the old standards unless they have gotten hand pain which is most likely the case over the years.
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Bowling Tips and Articles at: www.bowlingknowledge.com
IRC: Internet Relay Chat on Dalnet #striketalk. 24x7x365

Overhand · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2004, 09:31:40 AM »

my coach/driller has shortened my span by 1/2" over the last two years. wow, has my release changed.

'shorter is better'

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It is by Caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by Caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2004, 10:07:32 AM »

I had all mine shortened due to pain that started shooting from the base of my fingers up to my elbow at release. I have noticed my thumb does not swell hardly at all anymore since, like Pin-Nut, I am not "squeezing the bejeezus out of it". So, no pain, no swelling - in my book longer spans are NOT the way to go.
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9~

Keep your balls on the lane and your mind in the gutter!

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2004, 12:56:19 PM »

I understand the thinking of the longer span for the older equipment.....however....would it not be the case to have the finger pain and thumb pain then? Basically that is what I am getting at. Maybe the older bowlers asked less questions because they were not nearly as educated about equipment and fit as they are today.

-EX-

bowler257628 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2004, 12:57:57 PM »

EX, I know what you mean.. My Shop told me my FINGER PITCHES were wrong.. They did fix em and the finger pain did go away, but my thumb had hell to pay.
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I never dreamed it would be me, My name for all eternity, Recorded here at this hallowed place Alas, my name, no more my face. "In the line of duty," I hear them say: My family now the price to pay. My folded flag stained with their tears; We only had those few short years. The badge no longer on my chest, I sleep now in eternal rest. My sword I pass to those behind, And pray they keep this thought in mind. I never dreamed it would be me, And with heavy heart and bended knee, I ask for all here from the past: Dear God, let my name be the last.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2004, 01:21:11 PM »

I'd like to be the voice of dissent on this!

In my area I see the opposite. All sorts of people dropping balls and using lateral out when there thumb says lateral under.

For myself I am nearly perfect if one looks at a Bill Taylor drilling book!
Right to the middle of the ring and and middle fingers before the last joint.

This puts my last joint near the far side of the finger holes. Well since I wnet to this proper span I struggle to hold on to the ball. When I had an incorrect span I bowled much better(too long).

Recently I added a new glove(master blue with a metal plate in back). This has now shortened my hand or made my span feel longer so that my last joint is almost 1/8 away from the back of the hole. Or as a friend of mine always does joint is about 5/16 past front of hole.

This has the effect of making the span feel 1/8 of an inch longer.

I am throwing the ball in a way that used to scare a few people and never dropping! All of a sudden the perfect pitch and the exact right amount of tape is not needed.

Yahoo!

Short spans bah humbug!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS In that section he states two things that ring true for me.
1. Draw a line in between OR SLIGHTLY PAST past first and second joint of finger and make sure with a natural stretch that this line is on the front edge of the finger hole.
2. Final comments on span, and I believe this is the most important thing Bill says on the subject. He states and I paraphrase, The final step in getting the span right is where is the pressure during the backswing and at release.
If the pressure is near the last joint of the ring and middle finger at the top of the backswing and then shifts to the whole or complete pad of the ring and middle at release then it is perfect. If instead during the backswing it is flat on the pads of the fingers and then shifts to just the fingertips at release then it is too short!

I realized that my span was in general too short based on number 2

Edited on 11/19/2004 2:30 PM

Edited on 11/19/2004 11:48 PM

Author Topic: I believe this..............do you? (Read 1412 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl

I believe this..............do you?

Pinbuster

Re: I believe this..............do you?

Pinbuster

Re: I believe this..............do you?

mrteach3

Re: I believe this..............do you?

Scolai

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Ragnar

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BuckeyBalls

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pin-chaser

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Overhand

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9andaWiggle

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C-G ProShop-Carl

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bowler257628

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LuckyLefty

Re: I believe this..............do you?