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Author Topic: Drill press  (Read 7392 times)

qstick777

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Drill press
« on: June 20, 2005, 03:21:17 AM »
I know this was mentioned somewhere before, but I did a search and couldn't find the thread.

What is a good price for a used drill press?  I remember somebody mentioned to check sporting goods stores or other retailers that used to sell and drill bowling equipment (like Kmart, etc).

I was thinking about checking around some of the places near me, but I'd like to be prepared to make an offer on the spot instead of looking at the stuff and then trying to rush and find out if I'm getting a fair deal.

Let's say I could find a place with the drill press, drill bits, measuring ball, scales, and the stuff to measure pitches - what would be a fair price?

I don't really need all of the other equipment since I don't really plan to drill for anybody but myself, but assuming I can find the stuff I might as well get everything I need.

 

HamPster

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2005, 01:11:54 PM »
I was going to say more than you could afford, but I'll spare the financial insult.  Let's say it's more than I can afford.  Unless I had "help."  I'd say you're looking at $5000+ at least.  If you want something decent, that is.  I know that probably doesn't help, but I don't see any other replies yet . .
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Edited on 6/20/2005 1:07 PM

qstick777

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2005, 03:00:59 PM »
Thanks!  I've been a good buy this year, so maybe I'll write a letter to Santa Claus!

What makes the drill press, etc so special/expensive?  I know you need to be able to drill at angles, but if you had an adjustable base (on both the horizontal and vertical axis) what else do you need?

I don't want to seem like I'm simplifying the equipment, I'm just trying to understand what makes a "bowling ball drill press" different from a "regular" drill press.

PJM300

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2005, 03:05:59 PM »
You can get a press with a standard jig from Innovativebowling.com relatively cheap....


HamPster

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2005, 03:27:26 PM »
Only the expensive ones have the movable base, I think, and that would be an oval making machine.  I've only drilled on one drill press, Jayhawk's tri-oval.  I honestly don't know anything about other presses.  I can't imagine how you'd create pitches without either a movable drill head or base, it wouldn't be possible.  And in that case, you'd be able to make ovals with any machine.  Maybe I'm overthinking it, I have a tendency to do that.  Either way, even cheap presses are pretty expensive.  I'd say a couple thousand at least for a good used one, then with the bits, measuring ball, scale, and pitch gauges, that's the rest of the $5000.  That's why pro shops have to charge so much for drilling.  I'm not going to buy a top of the line $15,000 press to turn around and drill balls for 20 measely bucks a shot.  It'd take 750 drillings just to break even, and I doubt I've drilled a third of that in the last 3 years, balls for myself included.  That's also not even counting the cost of the bits (though you wouldn't need many), measuring ball, or scales.  Pitch gauges are cheap.  However, you'd also need a quarter scale and grease pencils or a scribe, your own grips and slugs, glue, and a milling machine or mill bit.  That would mean you also need bevel knives, a sanding machine, span tools, bevel scrapers, etc.  I'm sure there's even a few more things I'm forgetting.  It's a shame it's so involved.  Now that I've been drilling my own stuff for a while now, there's no WAY I'd be able to let anybody else do it.  As simple as it is, once you've drilled your own stuff, unless you're not too perfectionistic on your feel, you'll never be able to let anyone else do it.
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Hey, I am NOT Michael Jackson.  I like little GIRLS, not little boys . .

Rock on kitty.

qstick777

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2005, 03:43:41 PM »
quote:
You can get a press with a standard jig from Innovativebowling.com relatively cheap....  


Couldn't find any prices on the website, so I emailed customer service.  Here is the response (for anybody else interested):
quote:

The Delta 15-229 Drill Press and the Jet have been discontinued.

We now have a 15-965 drill press for $650.00.

The new Drill Press is right in between the Delta and the Jet in quality.  We decided to carry a mid-priced drill press instead of a very expensive one and a very cheap one.

The 15-965 Drill Press with a Standard Jig mounted and set up to drill out of the crate is $1,295.00.



HamPster- Is there anything special about the drill bits, other than the sizes?  Do they need to be a certain material or anything?  I imagine the bowling ball material is pretty hard on the drill bits - I've noticed the pro shop seems to take their time drilling the holes, so I'm guessing it isn't something that you can just drop and go (like drilling 2x4's or plywood).

I wouldn't say I'm 100% serious about getting a drill press, but I've been thinking - lately several retail stores in my area have gotten out of the bowling ball business, and I believe they have the drilling equipment still sitting around.  I don't know if the store manager makes the decision, or it comes from corporate.  I was originally thinking about getting a part time job with the hopes of learning how to drill balls (at the expense of the customers or the store!).

Just thought maybe I could pick up something for "a couple hundred bucks" and it would be better than dropping $40-60 at the pro shop (plus, we all know that thanks to the internet he pro shops are all going to go out of business! )

Also, my father-in-law has a ton of tools (drill presses, band saws, etc) sitting in his garage that he hasn't used in years.  Figured maybe he had something that would work - he doesn't buy cheap stuff, and always buys the biggest, heaviest duty model.



Edited on 6/20/2005 3:39 PM

HamPster

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2005, 04:05:14 PM »
I don't think there's anything special about the bits.  They have to be sharpened every so often though.  Being that the materials inside the ball are different densities and/or hardness, a dull bit can "move" inside the ball, especially the more pitch you have.  If you hit the side of the core, and it's a more dense material, with a dull bit, it will naturally want to divert course.  Then you'll have ridges in the hole, and might even make the hole bigger than intended if you go too fast, or the ball itself shifts at all, when the bit is coming back out of the hole.  Like I said, I'm not too familiar with other press models or regular drill presses.  All I know is that if you want to be able to drill a ball with any kind of accuracy or consistency from ball to ball, a cheap press isn't gonna do it for you.  There's a lot of stuff you need and a lot of stuff you need to know even with the expensive presses.  Go to www.jayhawkbowling.com and take a look at their stuff.  They don't have prices on there either, but if you're interested in something, or just curious, the product manager's name is Jeff Ussery.  If he's not in, I'm sure somebody else can answer your questions.
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Hey, I am NOT Michael Jackson.  I like little GIRLS, not little boys . .

Rock on kitty.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2005, 06:13:15 PM »
I have a very acceptable setup with everything,

Ball plug, thumb slugs, inserts, drill press +jig,wet dry vac, tools, color kits ball plugs, span guages, lights tables, quarter scales, pitch guages ....
drill bits(limited set), sandpapers, polishes, towels, scotch brite pads, routers, sanders, lights.

EVERYTHING

For abotu $1500!  And the drill press is brand new!

REgards,

Luckyleftyu
PS I"ve drilled about 120 balls for myself and maybe about a total of 800 holes!  At about $8 a hole = $6400.

A lot of time... a lot of fun!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

qstick777

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2005, 10:23:58 PM »
LuckyLefty -

Care to share the secrets?  Or maybe just the models, number, etc?  That amount doesn't sound too unreasonable, even though at $50 a drilling I'd have to drill 30 balls to "break even."  I don't even own 30 ball (not yet!).

JohnP

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2005, 10:24:35 PM »
You'll need carbide tipped bits, new ones run about $30 -40 each.  And the throw (the distance the quill will stroke) of the press needs to be at least 3 1/2".  --  JohnP

LuckyLefty

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2005, 10:39:27 PM »
I"ve listed all the stuff I own before.  DOes anyone know where it is.

I started with a brand new Delta 17-365 which has a 17 inch throat and a 4 5/8 inch stroke!

That was $400 with a one year return any time satisfaction guarantee!  from www.deltawoodworking.com.

Jig was $300 from a guy right here on ballreviews.  It is perfect and accurate as hell.  An AMF jig that one must move ball to get pitches ...so it takes a little longer!  This for my garage.  I also got a bunch of drill bits with it most of which are unusable.

I then picked up about four drill bits.  31/32 for fingers that use finger inserts, 1 1/4 for thumb slugs, and 1 1/8 for thumb inserts.  A 7/8 and recently a 57/64!  

I think I also have a 59/64.  Covers my thumb.

Ball spinner from www.vertexbowling.com.

Used bowlingindex or bowl300.com for other stuff.

That's it!

REgards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

drillbit

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2005, 11:16:12 PM »
The drill press itself isn't terribly expensive, it's the jig, usually.

Back when I first got into drilling(1992-ish), we spent ~5000$ for our setup, which included: Jayhawk jig(used, $1200), Kaufman dodo scale($850), generic drill press, full set of drillbits, router(for ball plugs), ball spinner, and most of the other odds and ends to run a pro shop.

drillbit

qstick777

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2005, 07:00:46 AM »
quote:
The legit proshop operators "wet dream" is some dude drilling his own balls and needing "help". Or someone buying off the internet and needing someone to drill his new "ball". I think everybody should run out and buy their own drill press, jig, drills, do do scale, measuring devises, and everything else they need. When you come in for advice as to what to do, be prepared to pay. My fee for first question is $100.00. Thank you  


Why do people get defensive like this?  I simply asked a question about equipment.  Drilling sounds interesting.  I have some "extra" balls laying around - maybe I'd be good at drilling, and maybe not.  

I have a full time job, and a wife and kid - I don't have time to sit around the pro shop making small talk enough to say "hey bud, why don't you let me punch up my own ball this time," nor do I have the "free time" to get a part time job to try and learn how to drill.

What I do have is a detached garage that will be my workshop.  I do not currently own a drill press, so if I could buy one with the idea that maybe I could try my hand at drilling a ball at least now I know what specs I will need.

Given the cost of the jig, bits, and all of the measuring equipment I don't think drilling is anything that I'll be getting into any time soon.  I was simply asking questions.

As far as the "advice," maybe you are different than my "previous" pro-shop and might actually be helpful - unfortunately all my pro shop ever did was try to sell me the most expensive ball on the shelf, or whatever he had in stock (which wasn't very much).  He didn't care if I bought a ball or not, and was happy to drill any of the 9 balls I brought in.  He also was not concerned enough to ever make an effort to find out my bowling style, or to try and figure out why the $200 ball he sold me would not hook for me (had he taken the time he would have found out that the ball had too much side weight for my style), instead all he could do was offer me $20 and to sell me another ball.

BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2005, 01:02:41 AM »
I think the reason he slammed you in his post is in response to you saying the internet would be killing off pro-shops.  Yes, the internet will kill off pro-shop operators like your previous one; however, there will ALWAYS be a need and demand for local operators who DO give a flip and know what they are talking about.  I'm not discouraging you from learning to do it yourself, but I can see how anyone currently in a shop would take offense to some of the statements you made previously.  Good luck with your setup.

qstick777

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Re: Drill press
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2005, 11:59:24 AM »
That comment on killing off the pro shops was meant to be made tounge-in-cheek.

It has been mentioned many times that pro shops will go out of business if they refuse to compete with on-line ball prices, or insist on charging higher drilling prices for balls not bought in store.

I feel that pro shops provide a valuable service, and I give them as much business as I possibly can.  I agree that if the amount that can be saved is considerable (maybe $15-20) then I may consider buying my ball on-line.  The pro shop is still going to get my drilling business.  My pro shop doesn't care if I buy a ball on-line or in store.  In-store prices include drilling - all others are $40.  My shop doesn't stock very many balls in 14lb (which I use) so either way I have to order and wait for the ball to be delivered.

I realize that many pro shop operators take personal offense to people buying balls elsewhere and bringing them in for drilling or service, but my guy doesn't.

I recently bought a spinner and told my guy.  His response was "remember I gotta charge you when you bring it to me to fix "