Post by: pchee2 on September 30, 2003, 03:38:29 AM
Personally I think that he should buy me a new ball and he can have the one he messed up on. That's fair. I don't want a brand new ball with zero games on it having plugs all over the place. In fact, I don't want any brand new ball with any sort of plug. But my driller is a little unreasonable so he probably won't buy me a new ball to replace his mess up. He'll probably just plug and redrill the ball. So this being the case, do you think that I should pay drilling and plugging when he is the one who messed up my ball?
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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62. This guy is full of STUFF!
Edited on 9/30/2003 6:48 PM
Post by: A_P_K on September 30, 2003, 06:46:58 PM
All kidding aside his lack of competence messed up your equipment on more than one occasion. You should make it known to him you pay for quality work, not experiments.
Even if he's unreasonable tell him that you'd spread bad news across San Fran about his poor skills and business tactics.
If all else fails grab two manly 16lbers and run like hell.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!
Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.
Post by: louie on September 30, 2003, 09:54:26 PM
Try talking to your driller Pchee2. Maybe he will be reasonable.
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?
louie
Post by: PJM300 on September 30, 2003, 10:07:43 PM
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2003, 10:55:54 PM
and you use a thumb slug like Angstfilled said slug the thumb and have him
redrill it. Even if the span is fractionally off slugs are available in
1-1/8 1-1/4 and 1-3/8 so you can also make slight adjustments to the span
that would not be noticeable. Thats worst case scenario. The bottom line is
the driller should be enough of a businessman to make it a win win transaction
for you both.
Tom
Post by: Magic Carpet on September 30, 2003, 11:34:35 PM
"Contract" ball drilling should be the same. You provide the blank and the driller makes a mistake it's still your blank. If you buy the ball from the driller then he makes some margin on that and can afford to replace the ball if he screws up. There should be a sign posted ether way.
Now most drillers will be too afraid to stand up to this but it is the way it's supposed to work in the business world.
Post by: scotts33 on September 30, 2003, 11:37:53 PM
Scott
Post by: Brickguy221 on October 01, 2003, 12:28:00 AM
PS: If he replaces it, be sure it is a 16# manley ball.
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In the old days, they used axes to chop up wood...Nowadays, they use "BUZZSAWS".
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 01, 2003, 06:27:53 AM
Second of all I for any pitch mistakes or bevel expect my driller to fix those for free. Recently my favorite guys just screwed up a drilling for a guy and gave him a righty drilling and he's lefty. (As he said, "not sure why I'm not getting the reaction I'm expecting").
As to ball reaction, my good friend who is a wonderful ball driller and great bowler who's been in the business for about 15 years believes it is sort of hit or miss.
Even for himself he believes he can drill two balls for himself from the same company and get two different results or reactions. One great and one so so.
Then he says there are just balls that make a driller look good. Example the Demolition Zone, he says I could drill one of those just about anyway for anybody and they'd be happy. Then there are others (usually heavy oil monsters used inappropriately), that you are lucky if almost half of the people want to return them, no matter how drilled!
Then there are the bowlers. He has one guy who is a great bowler with a 3 1/2 pin to pap who always wants to copy other bowlers drillings(pin off to side of ring finger) about 1 1/2 inches from pap and can't figure out why he has trouble generating backend. If you give him a 4 1/2 inch pin to pap(over middle finger he is convinced before he even throws it won't work.
Tough business. Glad I'm not in it.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Regarding bowlers and pet peeves, Once worked in a ladies shoe store in college. "M'ame, you need a 9 1/2 D." She, "Oh no, I wear an 8 1/2 B"
OK! And they'll walk out of there with their feet so stuffed in to those things and be happy!
Post by: 1fife on October 01, 2003, 06:53:33 AM
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Dont swing it-if you cant bring it
When in doubt-swing it out
Post by: charlee323 on October 01, 2003, 08:02:37 AM
Post by: Rev_O on October 01, 2003, 08:36:08 AM
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Rev-O
mean people SUCK
Post by: Pinbuster on October 01, 2003, 09:20:36 AM
Now if you refused to throw the ball because the thumb was too tight and kept having us sand on it until you dropped the ball we might balk at that, we would probably slug or use an insert to fix it (free) but you will try the ball when we think the thumb is right even if you still think it is too tight.
Now a drilling on a ball that doesn’t seem to work or the wrong ball choice is dicey. We seek input into the process. Balls that would seem to fit the bowlers need are recommended but it is the bowlers choice from that group. Then we recommend certain drillings. Most the time they work but occasionally a bowlers style just doesn’t match up. We will adjust the coverstock free (for balls purchased at our shop this service is always free as long as you own the ball) but unfortunately there is a buyers risk of not getting the reaction they wanted.
Post by: JOE FALCO on October 01, 2003, 10:09:35 AM
Moved to NC and made contact with the nearest Pro shop. Bought a ball, he drilled it and I was fairly satisfied with it. Shortly after that I got involved with AZO products. Was lured by their TWO PIN approach. Ordered one of their balls ON LINE and brought it to the PRO for drilling.
When I went to pick up the ball he had the THUMB HOLE in one of the PINS. When I pointed it out to him (when picking up the ball) he said THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL .. when I tried the ball out (when I picked the ball up) and complained that the ball went STRAIGHT AS AN ARROW .. he said maybe it needs a weight hole!
Needless to say he was DOING NOTHING for me! The Ball was USELESS! Naturally he NEVER got any more of my business .. and I've bought a ball a month since!
Wish you luck with your PROBLEM!
NOTE: THIS PRO IS STILL IN BUSINESS!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Edited on 10/1/2003 10:21 AM
Post by: Brickguy221 on October 01, 2003, 10:26:27 AM
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In the old days, they used axes to chop up wood...Nowadays, they use "BUZZSAWS".
Post by: TyLytle on October 01, 2003, 10:55:49 AM
I have been in the service industry of years. It was a different type but service all the same. If I worked on someones new A/C and damaged it I would be liable to replace it even if I didn't sell it to them. Luckily I have never had to do so. But I take the time to make sure I am doing a quality job.
Drillers are providing a service. If they screw it up, they should make it right and not Band-Aid it.
Ty
Post by: JOE FALCO on October 01, 2003, 11:11:08 AM
There was nothing wrong with the ball I bought .. where I buy it is my decision .. in good faith I contracted (my own word) the PRO to drill .. he left the ball USELESS .. he took the $55 for the drilling! What responsibility does he have for HIS work? You would like me to believe .. NONE! .. guess that's a great business to be in!
AGREE WITH TYLYTLE!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Edited on 10/1/2003 11:21 AM
Edited on 10/1/2003 11:22 AM
Post by: TyLytle on October 01, 2003, 11:20:13 AM
Ty
Post by: 9andaWiggle on October 01, 2003, 11:22:10 AM
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: Pinbuster on October 01, 2003, 11:26:33 AM
Far too often the pro’s hands are tied by what is brought in.
I’ve seen little old ladies come in with 16lb hook monsters that roll out at the arrows. I’ve seen 6’ 5†250lb bowlers bring in 12lb plastic balls that they throw 25 mph.
It still depends on what and how it was screwed up.
Post by: T-GOD on October 01, 2003, 11:27:59 AM
He should definitely not be charging you for extra work that he must do because he screwed up..!!
If he's charging you for extra work or plugging your new ball and charging you the new ball price, I would think he won't last in business very long, unless he's the only game in town. =:^D
Post by: JOE FALCO on October 01, 2003, 11:30:24 AM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Wilbert on October 01, 2003, 11:32:08 AM
A drill pattern that does not work for a bowler does not warrant a new ball. The exception is drilling a ball RH for a LH bowler. Also, the pattern has to be reasonable for what the bowler wants. If the bowler wants the ball to go long, the pin should not be close to the axis.
Post by: thirtyclean on October 01, 2003, 11:57:55 AM
due all work necessary to satisfy the customer. Most
of the times it can be as little as surface adjustments,
or changing pitches. One thing about the new ball sales
that irk me is the guy who comes in off the street that
thinks that a new "hooking monster" is going to make him
a better bowler. I guy just bought a super freak from us
that he says the ball does not do anything. I told him
to bring the ball back and we can watch him throw it. His
comment was "I expect more from a $200 bowling ball" not
knowing that he can have major flaws in his game that a "$500"
bowling ball will cure ! Oh well, you have to put up with these
types !
Thirtyclean
Post by: PGdragon on October 01, 2003, 12:12:50 PM
Post by: 9andaWiggle on October 01, 2003, 12:54:16 PM
quote:
For example if you are having tee shirts screen printed and you are providing the shirts (not buying them from the screen printer) then you can expect up to 10% of those shirts to get messed up. The Printer is not obligated to replace them. Now many would depending on the situation.
"Contract" ball drilling should be the same. You provide the blank and the driller makes a mistake it's still your blank. If you buy the ball from the driller then he makes some margin on that and can afford to replace the ball if he screws up. There should be a sign posted ether way.
I really have to disagree here... If I bring a ball in to a pro shop, he is charging me $X.00 to drill it. He is providing me a service, and I am paying for his expertise and equipment to perform that service. In my opinion, he should be held accountable just the same as any other service. If you pay someone to clean your carpets, change your oil, paint your house, etc.. and they mess something up, you would naturally expect them to be liable for their mistakes right? That's my opinion. A new ball may not be in order, but the driller should do whatever he can to rectify the situation - at no additional cost to the customer. If that means purchasing a new ball, then so be it. But honestly, I can't imagine an experienced driller messing a ball up so badly that a simple thumb plug and redrill couldn't fix it.
(PS. I'm talking fitting of the ball here. Layouts are another thing - lots of gray areas there as to how much the bowler knows and how much time the driller spent understanding their style and needs.)
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: mumzie on October 01, 2003, 02:36:59 PM
If the screw up was from negligence or error on the shop operators part, he should replace the ball (unless a slug would be acceptable to the customer) - at which point the drilling should be discounted, or at least no charge for the slug).
BUT - if the shop operator refused to make it right ON HIS ERROR, I would not only refuse to do business with him in the future, but I'd make sure and tell everyone about it!!!
Two related stories:
1. Several years ago my coach suggested going less reverse in my thumb to get me out of the ball quicker. I asked my pro shop guy to make the change on one ball. He refused. "I measured your hand and drilled that ball the way that is right for you. I will not change it just because some coach thinks he can fix something that way."
I have not been back since. I went to the guy I'm still using - he changed the pitch in one ball as I asked, and earned all my business since.
2. A friend of mine - a pretty decent bowler - went into a local pro shop a couple of weeks ago. He asked for an aggressive ball from one manufacturer. the guy drilled up another brand and type of ball. My friend felt obligated to pay for it - used it for less than 1 game, and sold the ball to me, for a significant loss. I maintain that he shouldn't have originally paid for the ball, and walked if the shop owner didn't make it right.
BTW - that's NOT the shop I use. I sent my friend to my guy.
Post by: Doc Hollywood on October 01, 2003, 05:10:50 PM
The bevel job was so bad and pchee had so much tape in the hole it made the ball weigh illegally.
I have since replugged the ball and told him that the driller better get it right this time.
Measure twice drill once and get the right size drill.
--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.comcast.net/~docsmagic/
or message me at:
http://Doc65@aol.com
Post by: CRSmith on October 01, 2003, 10:40:49 PM
Post by: pchee2 on October 02, 2003, 03:52:39 AM
What's so wrong in having him get me a new ball and giving him this drilled one? Heck I'm the one that is going to have to wait a few days or so just to get new ball in and drilled. So ontop of being charged for drilling and/or accepting a ball that has been plugged, if I do get a new ball in exchange for this drilled one I have to pay for his mistake with a delay in getting what I ask for too? Doesn't sound right to me.
Problem is that I see most pro shops as places that will do anything to make a buck even if its at thier customer's expense.
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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62. This guy is full of STUFF!
Post by: JOE FALCO on October 02, 2003, 09:21:08 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O