Author Topic: Dropping the ball (Read 2612 times)

Neptune66 · « **on:** February 25, 2012, 08:23:16 AM »

Is usually not a complete drop ---the kind where people in the immediate area, after hearing the loud noise of the ball hitting the lane, are inclined to check if their dental work is intact. But have been frequently losing control of the ball a fraction of a second before, or during the release. Needless to say, it usually messes up the shot (Though there have been times where it somehow finds the pocket on it's own).

With my mainstream equipment, drilled 3+ years ago, this doesn't happen. With several balls bought, drilled, and recently plugged and supposedly matched to the earlier equipment, I lose my grip on the ball a minimum of 2-3 shots per game.

One ball was so bad that I finally took it in for a comparison and the driller says the ring finger's span is a bit longer than the source balls and that a longer span can result in trouble hanging on to the ball, so am having that ball fixed. If it works, I have several balls that will need the same treatment.

Just curious as to your opinions about how much affect the ring finger has on release/delivery ---presuming the fit of the middle finger is correct. In short... do you agree that shortening the ring finger's span would help in holding onto the ball all the way through the delivery?

Strider · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:45:51 PM »

Usually dropping is from too much reverse in the thumb or a thumb hole that's simply too big. First thing I'd try it to add some tape to the thumb hole. My thumb shrinks quite a bit as I bowl so I'll typically add two pieces during a league night. I'm picky about my fit, so I cut tape in half (length wise) and add tape a half piece at a time. Sometimes just moving the tape closer to the top of the hole can make a difference. Try the cheap and easy fixes before you think about plugging anything. If that doesn't help, move on. If your individual spans aren't correct, by all means fix that as well. But if you're dropping the ball, usually either your span is too long, or you have more reverse than you need. Since you need to squeeze the ball, any less pressure may cause you to drop the ball.

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2012, 06:32:55 PM »

agreed.

Strider wrote on 2/25/2012 6:45 PM:Usually dropping is from too much reverse in the thumb or a thumb hole that's simply too big. First thing I'd try it to add some tape to the thumb hole. My thumb shrinks quite a bit as I bowl so I'll typically add two pieces during a league night. I'm picky about my fit, so I cut tape in half (length wise) and add tape a half piece at a time. Sometimes just moving the tape closer to the top of the hole can make a difference. Try the cheap and easy fixes before you think about plugging anything. If that doesn't help, move on. If your individual spans aren't correct, by all means fix that as well. But if you're dropping the ball, usually either your span is too long, or you have more reverse than you need. Since you need to squeeze the ball, any less pressure may cause you to drop the ball.

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Gazoo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:10:50 PM »

Simple test. Stick you thumb straight down in the thumb hole. Lift the ball straight up. If you can't lift the ball up, your thumb hole is to big.

Neptune66 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2012, 11:28:40 PM »

I have had issues with the thumb hole before, and do use tape in it (my thumb shrinks early into league, then stays relatively steady after that), but this seems to be the fingers slipping out.

The problem varied in severity among balls purchased or fitted over the last year or so, which prompted me to return to my previous driller (I didn't leave him.... he moved his shop away from the lanes I frequent the most), and asked him to "fix" them so they were the same as his original drilling.

Has been frustrating cause his "fixes" have helped, but have not eradicated the problem, and when I asked him to compare the old and newer drillings, he found no difference.

Today I went to a 3rd driller, whom I have used before, but not in several years, and described the problem and he recommended shortening the span on just the ring finger. The particular ball is not what I consider one of my top seeds, but if it feels better after he moves the ring finger closer, then it will become one. ---And I have at least 3 or 4 balls that I will want to pay him to plug and fix the same way.

I was very surprised when he said that the span being too long could cause dropping of the ball. I thought it was the reverse (too narrow a span causing dropping). But now that I think about it.... when I was MUCH younger (like 30 years ago), I used to have trouble with drillers measuring me for too wide a span, which of course caused me to drop the ball. It's just that those differences were large enough that the ball actually felt uncomfortable in my hand, even when not actually delivering the ball. in this case, wer're probably talking about 1/16th of an inch difference at the most. Yet... for fussy me... that could very well be the difference between dropping and not.

Neptune66 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2012, 11:38:05 PM »

Oh... forgot to mention that according to the driller of my balls from 3+ years ago, the pitch on the thumb of all the equipment is the same. But... he is human and could be mistaken. I am considering doing some forward pitch if the ring finger operation doesn't do the trick.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2012, 07:24:07 AM »

Do you use a straight drilled thumb hole, urethane slugs, vinyl inserts, tapered inserts, oval inserts or straight inserts?

Regards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Neptune66 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2012, 11:54:48 AM »

Thumbholes are straight and I make it a point NOT to have them tapered or with much bevel. Have had enough problems over the years that once I find a size that works for me, I want to be able to have it duplicated. Would rather go up or down in drill-bit size, so that the hole can be (SHOULD BE) easily duplicated from driller to driller (vs having the driller try to duplicate all the special tweaks of the previous one).

And all are thumbholes are inserts (or slugs, as I refer to them). Not sure if they're vinyl or urethane. Could have some of each. And in case I didn't mention before, I don't use inserts for the fingers.

aussiedave · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2012, 03:35:01 PM »

What's your knee bend like? If it's too shallow, you can lose your leverage and occasionally "drop" the ball. I went through the same thing a little while back - just a couple of times a game, it would just get off my hand a little early and unexpectedly. I knew the fit was fine, so had to do a little thinkin'.

You can also try just a touch of cupping, not too much - gets your hand under the ball more and gets your revs up a little also.

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Edited by aussiedave on 2/27/2012 at 4:37 PM

Edited by aussiedave on 2/27/2012 at 4:38 PM

Neptune66 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2012, 07:59:24 PM »

Not sure if a "shallow" knee bend is close to the ground or very little. I do not bend mine very much.

I am scheduled for Meniscus surgery in couple months, but even when perfectly healthy I tend to not bend the knee very much (if that answers the questions). Are you saying that if I bend it a little more, I might drop the ball less? Certainly willing to try --- though to be honest, I tend to abandon new things very early into trying them.

I tend to cup the ball sometimes and sometimes not. The main problem I am having, though, is not with all of my equipment. Only with the balls that were either added or drilled in the last 18 months or so. Anything done before that is not being dropped. So... while I acknowledge it could be operator error, its more a case of me trying to identify what is different about those balls that is causing or allowing me to drop them more than the others.

aussiedave · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2012, 08:22:58 PM »

If you have a bad knee, then that changes things! Of course, don't aggravate that.

Is the new equipment heavier, or different style of ball that promotes a different style of rolling it?

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Neptune66 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2012, 11:23:00 PM »

The newer equipment is actually lighter and more skid/flip type then the older stuff.

I have some older 16's AND 15's, but the handful of balls drilled over the last 18 months were all 15. In fact.... even the older 16's are easier to hold onto (cause of the earlier drilling) then the more recent 15's.

I still appreciate the questions, as I hadn't actually thought much about the weight and some other possible factors. But it's more of an intermittent problem, which is why it's been so frustrating and elusive to find the cause. Sometimes can go 9 frames before a drop, and then all of a sudden, it happens.

And as mentioned in my original post, it's not like I'm frequently losing the ball altogether. But as I am releasing it, I can sometimes feel it shifting slightly or starting to slide off my fingers before I have added whatever minimal rotation I intended.

Is so slight, that my teammates often see me throw a strike and congratulate me, and can't understand why I am shaking my head and mumbling to myself. And it s because I didn't have full control of the ball and it was at least partly an accident that the ball found the pocket.

And has taken me a lot of games ---both practice and league--- of using different balls with different amounts of bowler's tape for adjustment, to finally have narrowed it down to all the balls that were originally drilled last year by the pro shop person who is no longer operating that pro shop.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2012, 08:18:31 PM »

If I am reading right it sounds like you are saying you are losing it off the fingers. Is the forward reverse pitch the same? Is the finger insert the same style. Powerlifts will add more hold to fingers than ovals.

As to the questions I asked you about your thumb. Vinyl is a much slower releasing surface than Urethane and for some is just the answer in slowing the thumb out. (I love it personally). It is important to know what you have now and what you had then.

In addition tapered thumb inserts versus straight thumb inserts can make a big difference. If you substitute a tapered insert for a straight drill or straigh insert you are in effect adding about 3/32 reverse in my mind(and 3/32 increase in palm under lateral) in my opinion.(the two touching surfaces predominate). I make accomodations for a taper by reducing reverse and reducing thumb lateral by the amounts above. This adjustment seems to keep the thumb release same speed with this compensation.

Regards,

Luckylefty

PS hope you get this worked out.

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Neptune66 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2012, 09:18:51 PM »

No finger inserts being used, and I THINK I'm losing it at the fingers. If it were the thumb, I'd just add some tape.

I actually think there is less forward pitch in the fingers than there was in the original drilling, but my driller measured several times (after he had plugged and "fixed" the ball(s) and said that they were the same. I just don't believe it.

Cause if I pick up any of my older balls ---- I mean balls with older drilling--- the dropping problem disappears completely. With the newer drills (or corrected ones), I can sometimes adjust my delivery so that the ball stays on my fingers longer or more easily, but that shouldn't be necessary and it isn't with the balls that were never touched by the in-between driller last year.

I trust my current driller (who is also the guy who drilled the balls that are ok), and yet he's measuring the "fixed" ball(s), and telling me he can't find the discrepancy, and then I go back to the lanes and the problem is still there.

Not sure what to do. If the measurements are off by even a hair, I will feel it. So maybe he's saying it's so slight a difference that it's negligible? Or maybe I can go to someone else and ask them to true up one of teh more recent drillings with a ball that has the original drilling (from 3 years ago)?

All I know is that the driller truly believes ther is no difference and yet I know there is. Should I just ask him to add some forward pitch to the fingers regardless of whether that takes it away from the original specs? Should I insist he measure one more time?

I'm really at a loss. And I SHOULD ....for the sake of myself and my teammates...just use my older stuff till this season is over. But I have put so much time (and money) into correcting these balls, that I am kind of obsessing over them. The expression "so near and yet so far" applies, as they are comfortable to pick up off the rack and throughout most deliveries. But 3 or 4 drops a game is ridculous.

Did I mention too that I can hold onto my older 16 lb balls more easily than thes 15 lb'ers? So it's not the weight of the ball that;s an issue.

JohnP · « **Reply #14 on:** February 29, 2012, 10:31:57 AM »

Ask him to compare the size of the holes using a caliper. -- JohnP

Author Topic: Dropping the ball (Read 2612 times)

Neptune66

Dropping the ball

Strider

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charlest

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Gazoo

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Neptune66

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Neptune66

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LuckyLefty

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Neptune66

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aussiedave

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aussiedave

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Neptune66

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LuckyLefty

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Neptune66

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JohnP

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